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First, talking someone into "being nice" isn't what would be going on. She has been taught to be equally threatening back to anyone who bullys her. My daughter had been bullied early on, but instead of ranting and going off the deep end, I worked with her in her thinking and how she should react. Kids know to leave her alone and pick on someone who is weaker and who will be intimidated by their behavior.
If you go back and read the OP; there was a 'tube' of something blue. Not a baggie or sackful. Hardly a "weapon".
And how is it different saying 'I'm going to kill you' to your brother or sister, and some other kid? There is no difference. That boy never claimed he was going 'to kill' anybody.
They were not at a park. They were at school where there are lots of other kids around and lots of adults. If ANYONE thought the boy had a "weapon", I'm sure someone would have intervened.
First, talking someone into "being nice" isn't what would be going on. She has been taught to be equally threatening back to anyone who bullys her. My daughter had been bullied early on, but instead of ranting and going off the deep end, I worked with her in her thinking and how she should react. Kids know to leave her alone and pick on someone who is weaker and who will be intimidated by their behavior.
If you go back and read the OP; there was a 'tube' of something blue. Not a baggie or sackful. Hardly a "weapon".
And how is it different saying 'I'm going to kill you' to your brother or sister, and some other kid? There is no difference. That boy never claimed he was going 'to kill' anybody.
They were not at a park. They were at school where there are lots of other kids around and lots of adults. If ANYONE thought the boy had a "weapon", I'm sure someone would have intervened.
I certainly knew the difference between my brothers/sisters and other kids. I certainly knew the difference between behavior at home and behavior in a public place that was not home. I certainly knew the difference between saying to a sibling "I hate you!" and coldly telling a classmate who had NEVER harmed me "I'm going to pour poison down your throat."
I am kind of shocked and disturbed that you insist on making these two distinctly different scenarios equivalent. They are not equivalent in any way. Furthermore, in another post you commented about things "boys say to each other" but remember, this is one-sided -- one boy is saying threatening things.
Think about kids and adults who actually DO threatening things. Do you think they just come from out of nowhere one day and act violently? Of course not. They BEGIN with "talk" and then they assess the reaction they get (or don't get) and then they escalate.
Btw, I had my fair share of bullies because I lived in a violent area during junior highschool, and while I may have secretly wished them dead or entertained fantasies of standing up to them victoriously, I NEVER envisioned pouring poison down their throats or any similarly violent act, to say nothing of sharing such views with them or with my friends. It just didn't enter my mind. So please, stop assuming that this kid's threats are all just part of growing up. Being a discerning adult means having the judgment to know what's just boyish misbehavior and what portends bad things for the future.
Really, that's all I want to say on this issue. You may be glad that I'm not a judge but I'm glad that you're not! I don't think our children would be very safe with you at the helm if you are truly so blase.
p.s. a tube of rat poison (which is blue and granular, much like this substance was described) will kill an adult, to say nothing of a 50 lb child.
But no one knows what was in the tube. You are assuming the worst. You are also assuming that the 7 year old said nothing. You are also assuming that you know the criminal mind and can read a 8 or 9 year old and know that he will be a criminal in his later years. You are also assuming that you know the situation well enough to condem a young boy for life.
One of my cousins grew up mean. He is older than my sisters, brothers and myself, yet he picked on us relentlessly. He grew up, married and had 5 kids. He is one of the most loving fathers I have known.
Another cousin (the first one's brother) and his friend were careless and wild. They would come over to our road (We lived in the country a mile and a half from them.) and race their cars when we were very young. Our mother would not allow us near the road to ride our bikes for a couple years because of the teenagers racing all the time. BOTH of those boys ended up police officers after serving in the armed forces (one army, the other air force).
I know another boy who used to pick, pick pick all the time and was mean to other kids in elementary school. He has been a minister for all his adult life.
I knew a guy when he was in elementary school who was as sweet as they come. Polite, well mannered. He grew up and murdered another man.
Because a boy said something you think is so bad that he should be shot, doesn't mean he will grow up to be a monster.
But no one knows what was in the tube. You are assuming the worst. You are also assuming that the 7 year old said nothing. You are also assuming that you know the criminal mind and can read a 8 or 9 year old and know that he will be a criminal in his later years. You are also assuming that you know the situation well enough to condem a young boy for life.
One of my cousins grew up mean. He is older than my sisters, brothers and myself, yet he picked on us relentlessly. He grew up, married and had 5 kids. He is one of the most loving fathers I have known.
Another cousin (the first one's brother) and his friend were careless and wild. They would come over to our road (We lived in the country a mile and a half from them.) and race their cars when we were very young. Our mother would not allow us near the road to ride our bikes for a couple years because of the teenagers racing all the time. BOTH of those boys ended up police officers after serving in the armed forces (one army, the other air force).
I know another boy who used to pick, pick pick all the time and was mean to other kids in elementary school. He has been a minister for all his adult life.
I knew a guy when he was in elementary school who was as sweet as they come. Polite, well mannered. He grew up and murdered another man.
Because a boy said something you think is so bad that he should be shot, doesn't mean he will grow up to be a monster.
Here is some info. about bullies and the likelyhood of them becoming criminals as they get older.
Quote:
There appears to be a strong relationship between bullying other students and experiencing later legal and criminal problems as an adult. In one study, 60% of those characterized as bullies in grades 6-9 had at least one criminal conviction by age 24.[16] Chronic bullies seem to maintain their behaviors into adulthood, negatively influencing their ability to develop and maintain positive relationships.
Quote: STAT: Bullies who have been identified by age 8 are six times more likely than others to be convicted of a crime by the time they reach the age of 24. They are five times more likely to end up with serious criminal records by age 30 (National Resource Centre for Safe Schools, 1999[SIZE=1]8[/SIZE]). STAT: 60% of boys who were nominated as bullies in grades 6 to 9 had at least one court conviction by age 24; 35% to 40% had three or more convictions compared to 10% for the control group of non-bullying boys (Voices for Children, 2002[SIZE=1]9[/SIZE]).
Quote:
Bullies identified by age eight are six times more likely to be convicted of a crime by age twenty-four and five times more likely that non-bullies to end up with serious criminal records by the age of thirty.
I could keep adding more sites that all have pretty much the same statistics. I think that the statistics speak for themselves. Not every bully is going to end up being a criminal, but there is a higher chance that they will than won't.
And I could find just as many going the other way. So called studies can be slanted any way they want them to prove their point.
Going which way? That kids who ARE bullied also tend to become criminals? (I'd like to see these studies too, btw.) Isn't that just another reason to nip bullying in the bud?
So tired of people blaming the victim, rather that the idiotic bullies. Makes me think that perhaps they were (and still are) bullies themsevles. So what if someone is different? Kids that are smarter, for example, get picked on a lot. So wait, we should make our kids DUMB THEMSELVES DOWN to not get picked on? Give me a break!
What I will teach my kids to do is fight back against these ignorant, idiotic, conformist bullies. If they get suspended for fighting back, so be it..I will homeschool. Tired of the victims being blamed and the bullies being lauded.
I certainly knew the difference between my brothers/sisters and other kids. I certainly knew the difference between behavior at home and behavior in a public place that was not home. I certainly knew the difference between saying to a sibling "I hate you!" and coldly telling a classmate who had NEVER harmed me "I'm going to pour poison down your throat."
I agree that these are totally different situations.
A common taunt said by kids from one generation to the next (with a little variation) of "I'm going to kick your butt after school" is not the same as "I am going to pour poison down your throat." I want to know what kind of kid would think of something like this. Most kids will say "I'm going to kick your butt." Who looks at a vial of liquid (be it rat poison or dishwashing soap) and thinks to make it seem like poison, pack it to school and find the kid you want to threaten the stuff with? To me, it seems like a disturbed child who has thought some things out. Why not say to the kid "I'm going to wipe the floor with your butt?" Just as scary to a kid who is being picked on.
It's the same thing as a kid making his fingers look like a gun versus a kid saying "I'm going to get into my dad's gun closet and get out his rifle and kill you." Fingers-as-a-gun is slightly worrisome. Specifics about using a gun is reason to get involved.
As for people growing up to be "perfectly normal" adults. I would beg to differ. I think a kid who bullies another kid but grows up to be a good father probably bullied with common taunts and not "I will pour poison down your throat." Kids grow up to be productive citizens and great parents if they bullied their siblings by yelling "I hate you!" versus "when mom and dad are sleeping, I am going to sneak into your room with a butcher knife and stab you to death."
And, as an adult, I can vouch that some people never STOP being bullies. There are the PTO moms who treat meetings like a popularity contest, ostracizing people who are new, there are the road rage people who tailgate you all the way to work even though they could easily pass you instead, there are the bosses who come to work with a plan to make their employee's lives miserable just because they can. And they usually continue the cycle by passing on their bullying tactics to their kids. Very few true bullies have nice parents who will be horrified to learn that their child is so mean.
I'd hate to know what the parents of the kids that have committed suicide over bullying have gone through. I wonder if they have any "what ifs" or wish that they could have done something more or reached out to someone else to help their children.
We all know children can be mean, and I think they're meaner and have more access to knowing about violence than they did years ago when I was growing up. I'd rather overreact to someone bullying my child than underreact and scratch my head wondering what I could have done differently as my child is being buried because they committed suicide because they thought they had no way out.
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