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Old 03-12-2010, 11:56 AM
 
Location: USA
1,952 posts, read 4,773,508 times
Reputation: 2265

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Quote:
When you look at how mothers spend their time, there really isn't much difference between today's working mom and yesterday's stay at home mom. We just changed the location of where we work from the barn to the cubicle.
I totally disagree with this. There is a huge difference between a working mom and a SAHM.

Quote:
Women are stepping into roles once reserved for men. Now why would they do that if they were so fulfilled with the role they had?
They stepped out of it because of the women's lib movement coming along and telling them that what they were doing didn't matter, that they had to "find themselves," etc.

Don't tell me that it didn't happen that way - I was there and remember.
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,343,998 times
Reputation: 41121
Quote:
I'm happy for people who feel fullfilled without making a contribution
This is the kind of backhanded slam that is getting some posters annoyed. Why couldn't you have left the bolded part off? How do you know who is making a contribution and who isn't?
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:58 AM
 
5,747 posts, read 12,013,508 times
Reputation: 4511
You're very welcome. You and I don't agree about everything, but I, too, am having trouble understanding why your post has generated such ire. It just seems a bit defensive for people who are supposedly content with their lives.

Awhile back I posted about activities that helped both my husband and me develop a sense of significance and contribution when we were young, but I suspect it got lost in the shuffle. He relayed that sports, scouting, and ROTC (high school and college) did it for him. For me, it was definitely music, not as a individual musician, but as a participant in a youth orchestra, symphonic band, and competition marching band. Even today, seeing videos of our performances makes me sit a little taller.

My kids are still fairly young, but my daughter recently expressed interest in joining the middle school band. Nothing would make me happier. If she follows through, I hope it brings her the same joy it brought me.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 03-12-2010 at 12:37 PM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,903,429 times
Reputation: 3697
I think that's where people are taking offense, ivory--stay at home parents are definitely contributing, just perhaps not to the fullest extent possible (or perhaps they are, in their family). Would you fault someone for volunteering for 5 hours when they could volunteer for 10? What about making $50k instead of $60k? What if making that extra $10k made them miserable and cranky at the end of the day? Is it a bigger contribution to be a happy person on a lesser salary, or a bear of a person making millions?
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,343,998 times
Reputation: 41121
fc - you have mentioned that you volunteer at your kid's school. Do you do it only to build them up and is it a false importance? Is it less important than volunteering at an animal shelter? Is the time you spend during your day, unimportant and not contributing to your family? Those are the words that I don't get. I get that they may not be fulfilling for HER or that HER family may not need those things. I am past that point of having young kids at home and volunteering in the classroom. I am working and putting money in the family coffers. I feel good about the choices I've made in our family dynamics. I just don't get why HER definition of "important contribution" is the one she feels everyone ought to adhere to.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:32 PM
 
5,747 posts, read 12,013,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
fc - you have mentioned that you volunteer at your kid's school. Do you do it only to build them up and is it a false importance? Is it less important than volunteering at an animal shelter? Is the time you spend during your day, unimportant and not contributing to your family? Those are the words that I don't get. I get that they may not be fulfilling for HER or that HER family may not need those things. I am past that point of having young kids at home and volunteering in the classroom. I am working and putting money in the family coffers. I feel good about the choices I've made in our family dynamics. I just don't get why HER definition of "important contribution" is the one she feels everyone ought to adhere to.
I volunteer because there is a need in my neighborhood school, and I enjoy spending my time there, not to build up my children specifically, although I concede that they benefit indirectly from my efforts in making educational resources available. But, whether or not it's important to my children is beside the point. My volunteer work is important to ME.

Volunteering provides me with an opportunity to build relationships and a venue for affecting the course of education in my community. It's also proved to be a source of inspiration to me as I ponder the next steps in my life.

Is it less important than volunteering in an animal shelter? I don't understand the question. I have no desire to volunteer in an animal shelter. It holds no appeal for me.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:33 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,674,512 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
You continue to berate those of us who are frustrated with this thread that is going nowhere. As someone on a previous page so aptly put it, it's like arguing with a brick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I find it curious that people who are, supposedly, so content with their lives and so sure what someone else is saying doesn't apply to them get so up in arms about what is said.

Again, thanks for chiming in. I find that when people insist on keeping blinders on, hearing the same thing from different sources helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
If you've tired of the debate (not much debating going on here as I haven't heard a good counter arugment),
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Here we go again with the attack the poster stance. Happens all the time when those opposing the view can't come up with a, logical, counter argument.

The truth bears repeating . If you don't like hearing it, then either prove me wrong or don't listen. Obviously, I've hit a nerve

I was going to go into a personal experience with this but you wouldn't get it anyway so I'll save my breath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Thanks for the support. Even though I'm a big girl and can take care of myself, it's nice to have somoene else who gets it offer support.

As to the suggestions I need to fix my life, that's just people who can't support their own position. The tactic is simple. If you can't support your point, then you attack the person making the post in an attempt to cover up that you can't actually support your own point and hope they go away. Funny thing is just about everyone recognizes that for what it is. A diversion tactic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Now that's hogwash. So what is this difference that no one can measure that REALLY matters??? If it can't be seen or measured, why does it matter? This is a classic cop out when the data doesn't support your side of the debate.
Point made. Because it's passive aggressive doesn't make it not true.

Last edited by NoExcuses; 03-12-2010 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
15,966 posts, read 20,923,733 times
Reputation: 43202
Are we seeking fulfillment or recognition? I know people who get a sense of fulfillment from cleaning toilets.
Michelangelo's cleaning lady probably didn't get much recognition, doesn't mean her contribution to his household wasn't important.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,343,998 times
Reputation: 41121
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
I volunteer because there is a need in my neighborhood school, and I enjoy spending my time there, not to build up my children specifically, although I concede that they benefit indirectly from my efforts in making educational resources available. But, whether or not it's important to my children is beside the point. My volunteer work is important to ME.

Volunteering provides me with an opportunity to build relationships and a venue for affecting the course of education in my community. It's also proved to be a source of inspiration to me as I ponder the next steps in my life. I am now investigating options for pursuing a graduate degree based on my volunteer experience and moving into working full-time as a research librarian.

Is it less important than volunteering in an animal shelter? I don't understand the question. I have no desire to volunteer in an animal shelter. It holds no appeal for me.
I agree that there is a need, it is important and that our kids do benefit (as do the others). I was referring to Ivory's post:

Quote:
We need to find a way to give our kids TRUE self esteem. Not the false kind that is built by doing for them, going on field trips, volunteering in their class (sending the message that doing for them is more important than doing for others)
She indicates that volunteering in the classroom is somehow "false" but mentions several times that she hopes that volunteering in an animal shelter would give her the importance she is seeking.
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Old 03-12-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,903,429 times
Reputation: 3697
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
She indicates that volunteering in the classroom is somehow "false" but mentions several times that she hopes that volunteering in an animal shelter would give her the importance she is seeking.
The difference is that volunteering at the shelter is for the kids to get some sense of importance in their daily lives. Volunteering in the classroom only provides pride to the parents--and the point of this was to help our kids find the same.
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