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Old 03-11-2010, 09:22 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,167,403 times
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Ivory, I think that you are romanticizing an era that you were not a part of and have no real experience with. Did you find purpose and a sense of importance in your family when you were growing up? If so how? If not what was lacking?
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,440,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Ivory, I think that you are romanticizing an era that you were not a part of and have no real experience with. Did you find purpose and a sense of importance in your family when you were growing up? If so how? If not what was lacking?
No, just recognizing that there were losses along with society's gains in the past 100 years. I really don't want to work as hard as they did on the farm. However, that doesn't stop me from realizing that we have an identity crisis because we don't have those vital jobs to anymore. When you know you have to do certain things, there's no questioning what you should do or where you belong. You know.

Yes I did find a sense of importance in my family growing up. I was the oldest of six children and had to help out so mom could work and earn a paycheck. What I did at home made her working and the income she brought in possible much like older daughters watching younger siblings made it possible for mom to work the farm way back when.
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:15 PM
 
Location: The brown house on the cul de sac
2,080 posts, read 4,833,829 times
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
However, that doesn't stop me from realizing that we have an identity crisis because we don't have those vital jobs to anymore. When you know you have to do certain things, there's no questioning what you should do or where you belong. You know.
Who is we? The women or children in our society?

Let me tell you, I don't know any women these days that suffer from an "identity crisis" because they are not out milking cows or churning butter.

I have plenty to do and know exactly where I belong. Matter of fact, I have too much to do!

Times have changed. Thank God and society for that...women now have the right to choose how we want to live our lives and most of us gave up the farm a long time ago! Back then women had to obey their husbands, had no rights in society and were uneducated.

I think you are projecting and trying to make some sense of your own "identity crisis" though. Have you considered talking to a therapist?
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:20 PM
 
5,747 posts, read 12,025,159 times
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What is this? Pick on Ivory day? I think she's brought up a fascinating subject that is deserving of real debate, not snarky comments about her parenting skills or suggestions that she head for counseling.
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:43 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,167,403 times
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yes I did find a sense of importance in my family growing up. I was the oldest of six children and had to help out so mom could work and earn a paycheck. What I did at home made her working and the income she brought in possible much like older daughters watching younger siblings made it possible for mom to work the farm way back when.
If you were able to find a sense of importance in your family growing up which I'm guessing was in the 70's then surely your own children can find a sense of importance today since not a whole lot has changed since then.
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:44 PM
 
Location: The brown house on the cul de sac
2,080 posts, read 4,833,829 times
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Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
What is this? Pick on Ivory day? I think she's brought up a fascinating subject that is deserving of real debate, not snarky comments about her parenting skills or suggestions that she head for counseling.
Ivory,

I am not sure if the above quote is in reference to my post. It certainly was not my intention to pick on you or be snarky and I apologize if you felt that way.

I completely disagree with you that women today lack a sense of importance or identity and that is as far as I am willing to go todebate it. That is my opinion that I am entitled to have.

My suggestion for therapy was only that, a suggestion.

There was no intent to pick on you...that was the last thing on my mind or what I meant to do and I hope you understand that.
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:48 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,167,403 times
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Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
What is this? Pick on Ivory day? I think she's brought up a fascinating subject that is deserving of real debate, not snarky comments about her parenting skills or suggestions that she head for counseling.
I think this particular comment is hurtful to many people and is probably contributing to negative feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It's like trying to make being a stay at home mom important again. It used to be because there was so much mom needed to do that her family depended on. Now it's not.
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:26 PM
 
5,747 posts, read 12,025,159 times
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Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I think this particular comment is hurtful to many people and is probably contributing to negative feedback.
Why would that comment be hurtful to any of you? If anyone has a right to be offended and/or hurt, it's Ivory, but I've read enough of her posts to know that she's intelligent, educated, & well-grounded and probably doesn't need me to defend her. Nonetheless, I've been appalled to find that this entire thread is peppered with subtle and not-so-subtle suggestions that Ivory needs to seek counseling, look for a better job, and/or become a better parent all because she dares to question the status quo.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 03-11-2010 at 05:55 PM..
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,440,837 times
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Originally Posted by renovating View Post
Who is we? The women or children in our society?

Let me tell you, I don't know any women these days that suffer from an "identity crisis" because they are not out milking cows or churning butter.

I have plenty to do and know exactly where I belong. Matter of fact, I have too much to do!

Times have changed. Thank God and society for that...women now have the right to choose how we want to live our lives and most of us gave up the farm a long time ago! Back then women had to obey their husbands, had no rights in society and were uneducated.

I think you are projecting and trying to make some sense of your own "identity crisis" though. Have you considered talking to a therapist?
No, the identity crisis stems from the loss of vital importance to what we do. We don't miss milking the cow but we miss the importance of tasks like that to our families.

If you don't think there is an identity crisis for women, just visit a stay at home or work debate board. There are many looking for validation of what they do. That is something our foremothers, and their children, had simply because of the way life was stuctured.

I don't think any of us miss the work our foremothers did but we have all this time to fill now and we'd like it to matter.
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,440,837 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I think this particular comment is hurtful to many people and is probably contributing to negative feedback.
As they say, the truth hurts. Reality is, the importance of the role women used to fill is gone. I do believe we are struggling to find that sense of importance again. Unfortunately, some do so by inventing importance where there is none. For example, many will argue that staying home with children is important even though there is a lack of evidence to show that children actually turn out better if mom does. If doing something makes no difference, it's not important in the big scheme of things. Some don't like hearing the truth.

In order for something to matter, it has to net a positive return for effort. What we women do at home today doesn't. It doesn't even amount to a part time job let alone a vital contribution to family.

In some ways I'm glad I don't have the workload of my grandmother but she never would have questioned whether or not her role was vital. She knew it was. The family, simply, could not function without her efforts. Years ago, men used to, actively, seek a wife if they lost theirs because a wife was necessary. He couldn't be successful without one. Today, it doesn't take a team to run a home because so much of the work has been removed from the home. While that's a good thing, we are left with a void to fill. Personally, I desire to fill mine with meaningful things that make a difference.
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