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Old 04-05-2010, 03:24 PM
 
2,884 posts, read 5,911,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
I bet if we asked the police officers, they would suggest calling them before they would suggest parking your car on the street or throwing something in the street.
It is legal to park on the street in my neighborhood.

I have not suggested throwing anything into the street.

I have not suggested anything illegal or dangerous, but the idea that people may be able to handle the situation on their own seems to generate a lot of hostility. Why?


Let's change the situation a bit. What if the problem isn't speeders, but burglars. If the OP had come on here and said, "What can I do to stop burglars on my street!" Some of you, if I were to use the logic displayed so far, would challenge me if I said to leave your porch light on at night, and post a Beware of Dog sign. You would tell me that it's the job of the police to keep burglars away from my house, and I should just call them. You would tell me that is unreasonable that I should take any action to deter burglars near my home, and that it is wasteful or even dangerous to leave lights on all night, and post a disingenuous sign that gives the idea there is a dangerous animal in the house.

Make sense?

No, not to me either.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,020,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
It is legal to park on the street in my neighborhood.

I have not suggested throwing anything into the street.

I have not suggested anything illegal or dangerous, but the idea that people may be able to handle the situation on their own seems to generate a lot of hostility. Why?


Let's change the situation a bit. What if the problem isn't speeders, but burglars. If the OP had come on here and said, "What can I do to stop burglars on my street!" Some of you, if I were to use the logic displayed so far, would challenge me if I said to leave your porch light on at night, and post a Beware of Dog sign. You would tell me that it's the job of the police to keep burglars away from my house, and I should just call them. You would tell me that is unreasonable that I should take any action to deter burglars near my home, and that it is wasteful or even dangerous to leave lights on all night, and post a disingenuous sign that gives the idea there is a dangerous animal in the house.

Make sense?

No, not to me either.
Actually, I suggested putting orange cones out along the side of the street. I am not hostile because you suggested handling it yourself. You are hostile because people have suggested calling the police. Why?
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:59 PM
 
2,884 posts, read 5,911,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
Actually, I suggested putting orange cones out along the side of the street. I am not hostile because you suggested handling it yourself. You are hostile because people have suggested calling the police. Why?

I am not hostile about people calling the police. I'm suggesting something else to try that might be more effective, and might be preferred by people who may not be comfortable invoking force of law at whatever stage the problem happens to be at.

Again, I will point out that even if you call the police, they may not be around when the speeders are a problem, it takes more resources away from other priorities, and there is the potential for violent confrontation. So I offered an alternative.

I offered an option to calling the police. I didn't expect a Spanish Inquisition.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,334,257 times
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Quote:
I offered an option to calling the police.
Well that's not exactly "all" you said.....you clearly inferred that calling the police would have a higher consequence of confrontation since police are apparently by nature inclined toward violence...

Quote:
Personally I think people should try to solve the problems in their neighborhood on their own before calling strangers with guns and tasers on their neighbors.
In my experience a few years ago with speeders on my street the incidence of confrontation was quite a bit higher when there were no police involved. We had a couple of very specific times of day when we had speeders (some going as high as 50 in a 25) some were neighbors, most weren't. We tried many different things (no parking allowed on our street) to no avail. Frankly, people without ownership in the neighborhood or in some cases teens, really could care less if you asked them nicely to slow down or gave the "slow down" motion with your hand as they whizzed by (their response was an entirely different hand motion). At some point we had several neighbors who, out of sheer frustration, would start yelling (and in some cases throwing things) at speeders. Of course THEN the police were called and charges were pressed - against the neighbor not the speeder. It did become quite confrontational. At some point, the police did get tired of hearing from us. They finally sent out several cars, set out there at a certain time and basically wrote a truckload of tickets. They did not use force or violence and it did help. We eventually had to go to a more permanent solution but having the police there was a wake up call to the speeders. The teens whose parents could care less, all of a sudden cared when their child's insurance costs increased. The adults took the police much more seriously than they took any neighbor. Speeding tickets is not the most glamorous thing the police do, but it is part of their job and there is nothing wrong with neighbors utilizing them to assist with the overall safety of their neighborhood.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:27 AM
 
2,884 posts, read 5,911,742 times
Reputation: 1991
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Well that's not exactly "all" you said.....you clearly inferred that calling the police would have a higher consequence of confrontation since police are apparently by nature inclined toward violence...
Maciesmom, their job is to threaten and do violence to people on your behalf. That is their job. That is what you pay them to do. To think they don't bring violence to the table is to ignore their very purpose.

Quote:

In my experience a few years ago with speeders on my street the incidence of confrontation was quite a bit higher when there were no police involved. We had a couple of very specific times of day when we had speeders (some going as high as 50 in a 25) some were neighbors, most weren't. We tried many different things (no parking allowed on our street) to no avail. Frankly, people without ownership in the neighborhood or in some cases teens, really could care less if you asked them nicely to slow down or gave the "slow down" motion with your hand as they whizzed by (their response was an entirely different hand motion). At some point we had several neighbors who, out of sheer frustration, would start yelling (and in some cases throwing things) at speeders. Of course THEN the police were called and charges were pressed - against the neighbor not the speeder. It did become quite confrontational. At some point, the police did get tired of hearing from us. They finally sent out several cars, set out there at a certain time and basically wrote a truckload of tickets. They did not use force or violence and it did help. We eventually had to go to a more permanent solution but having the police there was a wake up call to the speeders. The teens whose parents could care less, all of a sudden cared when their child's insurance costs increased. The adults took the police much more seriously than they took any neighbor. Speeding tickets is not the most glamorous thing the police do, but it is part of their job and there is nothing wrong with neighbors utilizing them to assist with the overall safety of their neighborhood.

Sounds like it worked out like it should.

Please remember that all I have advocated is recognizing that calling police invokes the potential for violence, I have not said that is NOT what should be done, clearly it is in some cases, but I would heartily recommend that people consider the potential consequences of their actions. If you are okay with the idea of someone getting tasered as the result of you asking for a speeder patrol, then that's fine! Call them! Because that *is* a potential outcome. If that outcome is not okay with you, then you should think twice before invoking the police resolution. When you call the police, you are asking for a potentially violent solution to a problem. All I hope to do is make people aware of that. And if they have a problem with that potential outcome, try another solution first.

As is obvious by the turn of this thread, many people do not recognize that calling the police invokes a the threat of force.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:16 AM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,020,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
Maciesmom, their job is to threaten and do violence to people on your behalf. That is their job. That is what you pay them to do. To think they don't bring violence to the table is to ignore their very purpose.




Sounds like it worked out like it should.

Please remember that all I have advocated is recognizing that calling police invokes the potential for violence, I have not said that is NOT what should be done, clearly it is in some cases, but I would heartily recommend that people consider the potential consequences of their actions. If you are okay with the idea of someone getting tasered as the result of you asking for a speeder patrol, then that's fine! Call them! Because that *is* a potential outcome. If that outcome is not okay with you, then you should think twice before invoking the police resolution. When you call the police, you are asking for a potentially violent solution to a problem. All I hope to do is make people aware of that. And if they have a problem with that potential outcome, try another solution first.

As is obvious by the turn of this thread, many people do not recognize that calling the police invokes a the threat of force.
It is obvious that your are outnumbered on this one. It is not "my" job or "your" job to enforce the law. That is what we have police for. If a traffic stop turns violent, 99.9% of the time it is the fault of the person being stopped, not the fault of the police. If the situation is going to turn violent, I'd rather it be the police dealing with it. That is what they are trained to do, unlike myself.
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:52 AM
 
2,884 posts, read 5,911,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
It is obvious that your are outnumbered on this one. It is not "my" job or "your" job to enforce the law. That is what we have police for. If a traffic stop turns violent, 99.9% of the time it is the fault of the person being stopped, not the fault of the police. If the situation is going to turn violent, I'd rather it be the police dealing with it. That is what they are trained to do, unlike myself.

Take a look at this word, "enforcement". What do you see right in the middle? 'Force'.

I agree that police are hired to do enforcement for you. And they even work with prevention. And that is what we are talking about.

Why not try prevention and discouragement before going straight to enforcement?



Now, personally, I don't like the potential for someone getting Tasered over speeding. I don't think speeding is something someone should be electrocuted over. However, I do see that it's a safety risk that can be mitigated. So, I'm all for trying prevention and discouragement. I, personally, do not think potential violence is an appropriate response to speeding. That's just me, I do not expect nor care if I am the minority opinion on that.
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:28 AM
 
6,066 posts, read 14,989,712 times
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I wouldn't recommend tossing or rolling things out into the street in an attempt to make people slow down or stop and think or whatever your well-intentioned reasons might be. If they get into an accident because of your actions you can get into a lot of trouble, and they might also get hurt. They could also swerve and end up doing property damage - which you might be held liable for for doing what you did.

The signs are probably the best thing you can do aside from talking to your city government. In our town we have a lot of curbs that have been designed to make drivers drive more slowly and cautiously. They sort of jut out into the street at the intersections and if you don't pay close attention you'll hit them and possibly do damage to your car. We also have these circular intersections - round-a-bouts - but people still drive stupid in those, too...

The best thing you can do to keep your kids safe is probably to just - like somebody else said - have them play in the backyard or take them to a park. Or fence in your front yard... but that won't stop a crazy driver. One of my sisters is a really bad driver who also went through a period of very heavy drinking and OTC drug abuse. She was just leaving our grandparents house one day when she somehow managed to drive the truck she was in up over the curb, up over the yard (which was a fairly steep uphill yard, so she really had to have been giving it the gas to get it up there) right through their bushes, and straight into the front of their house! She was dazed and confused afterwards... trying to blame the truck... but really she was just driving stupid.

You could maybe plant trees or bushes alongside that part of the street and not trim them back like you probably should. There's an area on our street where people have to slow down in order to look and make sure nobody is coming around a corner because the view is blocked by trees and bushes. Just let them grow all hog-wild until the city comes and makes you trim them back... then trim them back just enough to please the city but so they'll grow out quick again. I'm pretty sure that's what these neighbors planned when they put these trees and bushes in... hmmm... I should ask them! We live in a college town which also has a lot of retirees... so there's a lot of bad driving going on here.
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,334,257 times
Reputation: 41121
Quote:
Now, personally, I don't like the potential for someone getting Tasered over speeding. I don't think speeding is something someone should be electrocuted over. However, I do see that it's a safety risk that can be mitigated. So, I'm all for trying prevention and discouragement. I, personally, do not think potential violence is an appropriate response to speeding.
The police are trained to avoid the use of violence if at all possible. In many many cases the police are involved so that things will NOT escalate. Enforcing the law does not necessarily mean depending on violence to do so. Why do you keep infering that it is normal for police to taser or use violence when ticketing speeders? Or that ANYONE has suggested speeders be electrocuted? You had some reasonable points earlier but you are beginning to sound a bit off....

Prevention and discouragement....that's exactly what tickets and fines are.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,020,612 times
Reputation: 32725
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
Take a look at this word, "enforcement". What do you see right in the middle? 'Force'.

I agree that police are hired to do enforcement for you. And they even work with prevention. And that is what we are talking about.

Why not try prevention and discouragement before going straight to enforcement?



Now, personally, I don't like the potential for someone getting Tasered over speeding. I don't think speeding is something someone should be electrocuted over. However, I do see that it's a safety risk that can be mitigated. So, I'm all for trying prevention and discouragement. I, personally, do not think potential violence is an appropriate response to speeding. That's just me, I do not expect nor care if I am the minority opinion on that.
no one gets tasered over speeding. They get tasered because they mouth off to the cop, or get out of their car when they are told not to, etc. If the speeder keeps his mouth shut, all he will get is a ticket. The method of "enforcement" is the monetary fine and the point on your record, not the threat that you might get tasered for speeding.
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