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Old 04-13-2012, 10:26 AM
 
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I think the discussion and responsibility changes based on how old the children are. Obviously at some point the childs own desire for expression, taste and style are going to come into play.

One thing that always peeves me is seeing sloppily dressed and dirty kids. I have two relatives that are wealthy, far wealthier then I am. In both cases their kids are never dressed for the occasion, the clothes they do wear are sloppy, they are occasionally dirty (as in dirt smeered on the face from playing/eating) and they all have what amounts to dollar store haircuts. On the flipside my children are dressed appropriately in nice, neat clothes, are clean and their hair is always done. They have occasionally chided us for looking like a family in an advertisement when we come to family functions. Sorry, but I'm not bringing my family to dad's birthday dinner in a nice restaurant and dressing my daughter in camo pants, a stained white t-shirt and putting her hair in a ratty pony tail. I just don't understand how wealthy and succesful people can't grasp the concept that looks do matter. FWIW, none of them would go into work looking like that.

So, for me, I think parents have the responsibility when the kids are younger to; enforce and teach good hygiene, eating appropriately, excercising and dressing appropriately for the occasion in nice proper fitting clothes. When we start to get into things like braces and 'defects' then I still firmly believe that it is the parents job to address those issues as best they can.

As kids get older then they are going to develop their own style and taste, but if there is a good foundation laid then you shouldn't have too much trouble on the hygiene, diet and exercise front. If the kid chooses to wear clothes you wouldn't pick or have a funky hairstyle, so be it, but I would insist on wearing something appropriate if the occasion called for it and maybe toning down the hair a bit if it's something outrageous. Nothing wrong with self-expression, but know when a little bit of conformity is a better choice.

So, yes, parents have a responsibility to make sure that their children are "attractive" in so far as they do the best with what they have. If you look at what I put above, none of it is recommending anything drastic. Some things we just need to accept that they are what they are. Even if you are physically ugly even without a deformity making it happen, you can still dress nicely, have good hygiene, etc.

This all of course goes hand in hand with developing self-esteem, but I think that can be helped by actually putting some effort into ones appearance. When you work at it a little, you naturally feel better about yourself and your appearance. Everyone carries themselves a little taller when they are dressed to the nines and heading out, because you put in some effort to looking good and adds to your self-confidence.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
. I just don't understand how wealthy and succesful people can't grasp the concept that looks do matter.

Because for many of us, looks DON'T matter. I am willing to guess the fact that you think ill of them makes no difference to them whatsoever.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
This all of course goes hand in hand with developing self-esteem, but I think that can be helped by actually putting some effort into ones appearance.

I think you are projecting your opinion on "everyone". I manage to be brilliant and confident every day at work in flip flops, jeans and a t-shirt.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Because for many of us, looks DON'T matter. I am willing to guess the fact that you think ill of them makes no difference to them whatsoever.
I pretty much guarantee that they could careless what I think. They measure everything in dollars and cents, but that's a different topic.

It's nice that you think that looks/appearance don't matter, but they do and not in the superficial sense of George Clooney vs. Steve Buscemi that you think I am implying. It doesn't matter what your physical, as in bodily appearance, is as much as it is how you project, carry and take care of yourself. Looking sloppy and unkempt is what I was getting at and that is what parents should endeavor to teach their children to avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I think you are projecting your opinion on "everyone". I manage to be brilliant and confident every day at work in flip flops, jeans and a t-shirt.
You aren't any different as a person regardless of what you wear, but walk into a Wall Street boardroom in that outfit and see what people think about you and how seriously they take you. You need to dress appropriately for the occasion and be presentable.

Honestly though, you never get all dressed up to go out, look in the mirror and say "damn I look good" and have a little better feeling then on the days your just rocking the flip-flops and jeans?
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
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Yes.

It is a parent's obligation to kill any ugly children and have new ones to replace them. If those are ugly too, kill them and keep trying until you get decent looking ones.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I pretty much guarantee that they could careless what I think. They measure everything in dollars and cents, but that's a different topic.

It's nice that you think that looks/appearance don't matter, but they do and not in the superficial sense of George Clooney vs. Steve Buscemi that you think I am implying. It doesn't matter what your physical, as in bodily appearance, is as much as it is how you project, carry and take care of yourself. Looking sloppy and unkempt is what I was getting at and that is what parents should endeavor to teach their children to avoid.
Sure at a job interview. But in what way did it "matter" to those kids at the restaurant? Aside from the fact that it irritated you, which they clearly don't care about, it matters to them not at all. They still got fed.


Quote:
Honestly though, you never get all dressed up to go out, look in the mirror and say "damn I look good" and have a little better feeling then on the days your just rocking the flip-flops and jeans?
I don't feel any higher in self esteem.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:56 AM
 
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Sure at a job interview. But in what way did it "matter" to those kids at the restaurant? Aside from the fact that it irritated you, which they clearly don't care about, it matters to them not at all. They still got fed.
It doesn't matter to them at all and I only used it as an example. I really don't care if they take their kids places looking like they just crawled out of a baboon cage at the zoo, but I think they are doing a disservice to their kids by not teaching and exemplifying what is appropriate as far as appearances go.

I said it was a peeve because I don't understand why some parents just don't seem to care what their kids look like when they go out. We all have days we leave the house looking less then aces and there are definitely days the kids are just going to have to wear that shirt with the pudding stain on it, but when it is a consistent, all the time thing, it's different.

The one relative excuses it since her daughter is very tom-boyish and doens't want to wear dresses. Well, that's fine, but she doesn't need to wear what amounts to play clothes and show up with dirt on her face to a nice restaurant (and no I don't mean Applebee's, lol) for dad's birthday party that is also being attended by many of his friends. This was a slacks and sport coat at a minimum kind of place.

Quote:
I don't feel any higher in self esteem.
You may not feel any higher in self-esteem, but you certainly think you look good and carry yourself just a little differently, correct?
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:59 AM
 
14,294 posts, read 13,144,466 times
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Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
It doesn't matter to them at all and I only used it as an example. I really don't care if they take their kids places looking like they just crawled out of a baboon cage at the zoo, but I think they are doing a disservice to their kids by not teaching and exemplifying what is appropriate as far as appearances go.
I guess I don't agree that you get to decide for anyone else what "appropriate" is.


Quote:
You may not feel any higher in self-esteem, but you certainly think you look good and carry yourself just a little differently, correct?
I suppose if you repeat it enough, it must be so. But no, aside from the fact that if you wear heals, you walk funny.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:41 PM
 
Location: here
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Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I think you are projecting your opinion on "everyone". I manage to be brilliant and confident every day at work in flip flops, jeans and a t-shirt.
A person can conceivably look really good in jeans and flip flops. Maybe not "professional" or "dressed up", but not necessarily dumpy looking either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I guess I don't agree that you get to decide for anyone else what "appropriate" is.




I suppose if you repeat it enough, it must be so. But no, aside from the fact that if you wear heals, you walk funny.
Like it or not, there are certain situations that require appropriate attire. Opinions may vary as to what appropriate is, but teaching kids how to dress for the occasion is important IMO.

A few years back my nephew went to a family funeral in jeans. Would not happen in my house. I know we pick our battles, but I thought he was dressed inappropriately. My kids wear khakis and collared shirts to church every week. They know how to dress up.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:46 PM
 
Location: here
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I keep thinking about the kid I see at the bus stop every morning in jeans so short his ankles show. Yes, he's tall and skinny, and I know it can be hard to find pants that fit. With adjustable waist pants and every brand under the sun available locally, I don't know why his parents let him dress like that. These are people who who live in a very nice house and work in high paying professions. I don't think affordability is the issue.

My son wears glasses and is a little quirky I'm very mindful of his clothing not making him look nerdy. I'll always make sure his pants are long enough.
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