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Old 04-11-2010, 10:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
Based on all this I do not see how you expect him to follow any rules you set for your home. If you think you are going to make him look for a job you are kidding yourself.

Now on the subject of your daughter, I wouldn't let her come into you house unless she attends some counseling. She is in some weird co-dependent relationship. And you should tell her to stop bad-mouthing her husband to you. She has to stop playing the victim card to you. She has to stop feeling sorry for herself and make some decisions about where she wants to be in 5 or 10 years. Is she aware that if something happened to her he is the next of kin and can choose her fate. Does she really trust this man with her life?
Excellent insight and advice.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Excellent insight and advice.
Thanks. My dh on our honeymoon told me don't pull the plug. At first I was like what are you talking about. He told me "now you are the one that makes that decision". I'll never forget it.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:28 AM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,755,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
Thanks. My dh on our honeymoon told me don't pull the plug. At first I was like what are you talking about. He told me "now you are the one that makes that decision". I'll never forget it.
I had to look up what "pull the plug" meant. That was very sweet of your husband.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
Based on all this I do not see how you expect him to follow any rules you set for your home. If you think you are going to make him look for a job you are kidding yourself.
I think the OP realizes this. She doesn't want him in her home at all, and knowing him, will give her the perfect excuse to boot them out shortly, while being able to say, I offered to help, but you f'd up. Buh-bye.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelstress View Post
I think the OP realizes this. She doesn't want him in her home at all, and knowing him, will give her the perfect excuse to boot them out shortly, while being able to say, I offered to help, but you f'd up. Buh-bye.
She can't allow one to stay and make the other leave. If that's her plan, she shouldn't allow either one to move into her house.

I'd be more comfortable standing firm ground from the start. There's no reason to put on an "I offered to help" act.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:12 PM
 
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Default Angry Parent in Law

Well for what it's worth. There is an older sister in the equation here. The older sister believes that if it should come to it that, my daughter needs a roof over her head, then, she would likely not come, bearing husband. It would likely be on her own, having left him. Older sister, fully abreast of all the problems at hand.

So hopefully, if someone has to look for a roof over their heads, it would be the above scenario. Not that I'm just wringing my hands in anticipation.

What I honestly want, more than anything, is for the guy to grow the hades up, grow up already, grow a damn set, and stand on your own two feet and quit the lying. The guy, other than the major flaws pointed out herein, is personable, he is respectful in his demeanor, his appearance is All-American clean-cut. I want that more than anything else, because I know that's what my daughter wants. And because, otherwise, he gets along great with our family (we have a very high tolerance level).

But no. I figure a compromise would be, my husband insists that you don't break apart a marital union by making one go in one direction and the other in another direction. I don't necessarily agree with that when the offending party is as guilty as he is, of so many glaring wrong-doings. This isn't a guy who has otherwise sustained employment and through no fault of his own found himself unemployed. No, this is a long-standing pattern. He just doesn't wanna work for a living, apparently. Who does? But we all kinda like to have that roof over our heads and food in our fridge, and maybe gas in our cars, etc. He hasn't yet connected the dots on all that. He has family that bails him out continuously (therein, likely, lies a large part of the problem or basis thereof). Daughter doesn't necessarily like and get along well with his family. That's why it hasn't been mentioned here, especially since they are so good at bailing him out, ......... send em in that direction. I would like nothing more than to send HIM in that direction, her too, if she could stomach it, living with his family. But she doesn't like his family very much (and that's a whole other chapter, that is very justified).

So a compromise, my husband believing you don't break apart a marital union, is to allow them, should it come to that, to both come in this direction with some stipulations and conditions. I like the demand for counseling (which I've advised numerous times, as of yet, hasn't occured).

I don't want to be in the position of not having at least "tried", "offered".
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nnyl View Post
Maybe some b'ground will be useful. Hadn't wanted to bore anyone with the details, if you don't wanna look it over, don't.

This just goes back as far as when they first married (there's other prior history but I'd have to write a book). He had jumped from job to job prior to marriage. Finally went to trucking school and obtained a CDL license and was on the road for mos./training. And this is when all the contention was present, with our encouraging her to "live with him" as opposed to marrying, as there was an engagement. But nope. Marriage was to be.

Was some questionable issue at that time (while in training for trucking, out on the open road), before marriage, wherein he'd just been left at the terminal by his trainer. The only explanation was that it was time for the trainer to go home for a while. So you get left? at the terminal?, no other assignment, no other trainer, no way home, out of state, you just get left, is that how it works? That's what we were told. He was just suddenly here, after some panic stricken phone calls to his mother to buy him a plane ticket home, as he'd been "left" at the terminal, no other plans, just left behind. The explanation at the time was that the trucking co. will buy bus tix for those when it's time to go home, but him, he was not entitled to such as only a trainee. So he was just, *stranded* out of state, left behind. He did ultimately go back to the in-state terminal here and get on another truck, same trucking co., another trainer, and off he went, again.

So we forged ahead, plans for a wedding, conservative, such that we could afford. Him out open-road trucking at the time. He came home for the wedding, honeymoon. And the story was that he was to go back on the road once they returned from the honeymoon, would be given his next assignment. Only he didn't. No explanation other than there didn't seem to be any assignments. Tried getting on (so he said) with other trucking firms, no dice. Spent the first 4 1/2 mos. of their marriage unemployed, and no, not collecting unemployment, so one might infer (though that would be an assumption on our parts and maybe an incorrect one at that, and nothing more than that, so that accusation was never voiced out loud) perhaps he didn't measure up, maybe he quit, because he decided he didn't like it. But one would infer that the absence of any unemployment comp, maybe he'd, at least, not been terminated. That's for sure.

During this time frame it was said that his g'father (who lives out of state, driving distance however) was ill and not expected to make it. His bio father also lives in the same community as this dying g'father. So off he went, with their already too tight a budget to go see his dying g'father. Told my daughter (she confided in me) that his father was going to pay his fuel to drive there. Turned out to not be true. He used funds they could barely afford, to do so. But that's not the crux of it. He returned from the ailing g'father's bedside (he is unemployed at this time remember) , to announce that his bio father was going on vacation in FL, and he was going to join them for a long weekend. His bio father and the father's bimbo, going on vacation in FL. And so my daughter's husband announced, upon the return from beside vigil with ailing g'father, that he was going on vacation with the bio dad the next weekend.

The ailing g'father not expected to make it, yet the bio father (who is the son of this ailing g'father) is leaving to go vacation in FL? Didn't make sense to my daughter. If this ailing g'father is so ill, so ill in fact, that her husband is being implored to drive up that way for last g'byes, ...... how is that he has ralied to the point now that everyone can leave his bedside vigil and go on vacation, was kind of her sentiment at the time. The animosity here was from a vantage point that he was unemployed at the time, her husbandm and they were barely hanging on by a thread financial wise, with lack of income from him. Yet he was going on vacation, after having lied in order to go to see his ailing g'father that his bio dad was going to pay his fuel, and that turned out in the end not to be true.

So he returns from the bedsdie vigil to announce he's going on vacation with his bio dad and the dad's bimbo, in FL the following weekend (daughter couldn't go along, no money, but beside that point, she had to work). Oh not to worry my daughter was assured by her husband, his dad was paying his way (that too turned out to be not true). You see, we utiized him some that week on a project, to throw some monies their way and he handed her $50 of what he'd earned that week, and took the balance to go on vacation with his bio dad. This from a guy who was bringing no income into the marital household. She blew a gasket. That's the first time she left him.

Then, over xmas time. The job he just lost. He was working at that job, a job we got him, thru connections we know, the 2nd job we'd gotten him, he no-showed on the first one. And anyway he announced that they were shutting down operation the week after xmas. And so he planned a trip up to see his bio dad (out of state). The company where he worked, shutting down operations, he said, no pay, just shutting down operation the week after xmas. That turned out to be not true. This was found out because it deeply disturbed my daughter that a company that employs hundreds of people, could just shut down the week after xmas, and put how many people out of work, and no pay, and nobody is balking. So she called, while he was gone out of town to see his bio dad, to verify the info she'd been fed. Nope, not true. They were fully functional and working. She almost left again, and for good, that time. There was a huge huge issue at that time. I know this because my daughter shared the information with me and her dad.

Then of course, most recently, as explained earlier. He was sent home, he describes as a reprimand, but has not elaborated what this reprimand was for. Sent home, without pay. Was instructed (so he says, or was it a ploy to get my daughter, to return to the marital home, as she had now left him again, this is the juncture wherein she was sharing with me and her father that she doesn't know if she wants to continue mommy'ing and pulling him along thru life, etc.), ........... was instructed, so he said, to return to work on Monday 4/05, to meet with the powers-that-be to salvage his job, that's what she was told, that's what he told us, her. She did return to their residence, the Sunday night before he was to return to work on that Monday. He didn't go in, at all, on Monday. Daughter (explains of her own accord, not being waterboarded to talk), that she just couldn't fight with him anymore. Says that no sooner than she moved back in with her things, he started in, that he just couldn't go back, couldn't face them, that he'd likely be suspended from work for 2 weeks, can't afford to not work for two weeks, that he can't face the fellow employees, too embarassed. She said they fought all night about it, her insisting that he get over any embarassment, and that two weeks with no pay is better than mos. and mos. of being unemployed which is what she predicts might be the case. Fought all night, she says. Until she finally told him (this she share with her father and myself), "do what you want, but don't be surprised when I'm gone ............ for good, I'm not putting up with this forever".

Now why she chose not to pack up her things again and leave on the night that he decided to fight that he indeed wasn't going back in on that Monday to try and salvage that job (if that was even true to begin with, that there was opportunity to salvage the job), ...... why she didn't pack up and leave again, and for good, only she knows. And you all are so right, this all has to be her decision.

Obviously I have my thoughts, and what I think she should do. But I honest to goodness have not shared that with her. The only things she's heard from me are along the lines of "well you're not stupid, you will figure out what you want for your life, it's your decision, only you know what works best for you".

So here we are today. That's why the original post to begin with. That first 4 1/2 mos. of their marriage, they were living off of her income, and the substantial cash they'd rec'd in wedding presents. That's how they survived at that time. They have since moved and their rent is considerably more, and they no longer have that reserve of the considerable amount of cash they rec'd in wedding presents. So, either he finds employment pretty fast (good luck with that). I mean he couldn't go the two weeks he supposed he'd be suspended from work, without pay, but he can somehow manage to no-show, and promise he'll find another job. So he couldn't afford the two weeks without pay, .......... and so I'm surmizing, they may be on my doorstep for a roof over their heads sooner rather than later. I don't know that to be true. I'm just a worry-wart. But I know that what my daughter earns is not enough for them to continue to live there, and they are under a one-year lease, not to expire until Sept. 2010.

Btw, he has, since they married (he lied, they sat down, at some point on budgets prior to a wedding, what she earns, what she owes, him like-wise). He'd told her his truck payment, at that time was in the range of $270 some odd, is what she was told. Not true at all. Turned out when they were married and that truck payment needing to be made, it was over $500 monthly (it was a very nice truck). My daughter told me how, when she found that out, I guess soon after they married, she just sat in the floor and cried, and asked him "why did you lie to me, how are we going to make it?". That truck has since been repo'd and he has filed BK on his debt alone.

So here we are today, at this juncture. And I'm supposed to find it in my demeanor to tx this guy with "respect". As far as I'm concerned, respect is "earned". I'm not seeing any arena where that has been achieved, not really, not at all. Respect him because he's a hard worker? Nah, nope, nadda in that category. Respect him because he's honest? Gee, no, can't do that either. Respect him because he's good to my daughter and makes her happy? Gee, nope, zip on that also. Hard to find any arena where that much needed "respect" has been earned.
From the first lines, I suddenly became aware how very uncomfortable it makes me to just read it. The level of details suitable for a WIFE to tell, not MIL. This is what bothersome in this whole thread - the level of your penetration into someone else's marriage. There is nothing left unknown, safe maybe for the bedroom. This is an unhealthy level of engrossment into someone else's life. Is your daughter 14 years old? Even with a 14 year old, you don't wash the bones of her boyfriend to such a degree. Just a very uncomfortable feeling of you looking through their laundry.

Apparently you still don't realize that your daughter has grown up. It's her life. Step back. Step back. Step back. Don't let your daughter confide in you to such a degree. His tribulations are not your problem anymore, - they are hers.

Last edited by nuala; 04-11-2010 at 07:57 PM..
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:53 PM
 
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For what's it worth, I personally was a child of a marriage where MIL couldn't stomach her SIL, my dad. Her whole life she couldn't. My mother and her fought like cats. My grandma could never make herself stop disliking him. My mother never left my dad. My grandma became a bitter prune. She loved me, but I hated how she would hurl slurs towards my dad. This thread reminds me of my childhood. Knowing my grandma couldn't change, maybe the OP wouldn't be able to, no matter the advise.
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:21 AM
 
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I agree with holding both your daughter and son-in-law to standards if they come stay with you. It sounds like if he would "grow-up" - you would be able to tolerate him, as you've already said that it is his immaturity (not holding steady employment, not be truthful about difficult things) that is what is putting the strain in you relationship. Certainly the fact that your daughter is upset and sharing these things with you makes it that way - because how can you "like" someone who is hurting your daughter?

On the off chance that your daughter DOES stay with him, either because he DOES get his act together, or because of whatever other reasons -- just make sure you are not so cold towards him that it destroys any chance of a future relationship.

My husband and I had problems early in our marriage. Like your daughter, I expressed my frustrations to my mother. I finally filed for divorce - and my old fashioned parents who do not really believe in divorce were happy for me - because they firmly believed (after what I'd told them) that my husband would NOT get it together.

However, during the time of our difficulties they were never "rude" to him. They were as civil as they'd been at the beginning of our marriage (my family is NOT a warm/fuzzy family anyway..).

Then - for many reasons - we did not go through with the divorce. It was a rough few years, as we were trying to dig ourselves out of a financial hole, much of it my husband's. But we did it. My parents did not act any differently towards him than when we first married. The almost-divorce was never mentioned.

Now, its 10 years later... my husband and I are moderately successful, and my elderly parents live in OUR house. They marvel all the time at how wonderful my husband is - he is helpful to them (and to me, in my care of them) -- and they feel that he has "grown up" to be a wonderful man.

I feel the same way.

So -- if your son-in-law DOES turn it around, just make sure you don't resent him so much now that you can't "get over it" then.

I hope for your daughter's sake that he does. Some people have a very hard time growing up ... sounds like your SIL could be one of them...

good luck!
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:20 AM
 
576 posts, read 990,900 times
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Originally Posted by nuala View Post
From the first lines, I suddenly became aware how very uncomfortable it makes me to just read it. The level of details suitable for a WIFE to tell, not MIL. This is what bothersome in this whole thread - the level of your penetration into someone else's marriage. There is nothing left unknown, safe maybe for the bedroom. This is an unhealthy level of engrossment into someone else's life. Is your daughter 14 years old? Even with a 14 year old, you don't wash the bones of her boyfriend to such a degree. Just a very uncomfortable feeling of you looking through their laundry.

Apparently you still don't realize that your daughter has grown up. It's her life. Step back. Step back. Step back. Don't let your daughter confide in you to such a degree. His tribulations are not your problem anymore, - they are hers.

Nuala, I think you need to go back and re-read. I want my daughter to be happy. I know that she is not happy, not at this time. Re-read wherein I added that the guy is personable, respectful, clean-cut, and all I want is for him to grow up already. And read again where I advised her that if she's happy with this life, it's her life to live. I would cringe at it, but it's not me that has to live it. I only know she isn't happy because she has chosen to share those confidences with her mom and dad. She wasn't tortured into talking. She obviously needs an ear and a shoulder, and possibly to come, a roof over her head.

You seem to think our daughter should not confide in us, what are some pretty troublesome issues for her. I disagree.

My problem is with HIM. Also, with my daughter for having forged ahead with a marriage she was cautioned against. But more so with HIM, for the continual lies and inability or unwillingness to keep and manage stable employment. These are not two young folks who "had" to get married. They could've lived together, they could've put off marrying for a while, to be sure that his employment picture would become more stable.

I very much realize that my daughter is a grown adult. But it's not a situation wherein, because she's an adult, she gets refused an ear to listen, or a shoulder to cry on, or a roof over her head if she needs it. I would hate that if my own mother had ever tx'd me that way, were I in a temultuous situation like my daughter is in.

I know too much only because my daughter has had a very turbulent year married to what is thus far, the looser of the year. And so, tell her to quit confiding in me? I don't think so.

But I'm free to have my own opinions about him, that I don't happen to share with him btw, or with her. I manage to keep them to myself, and discuss them with her father (who happens to be more lenient than myself, see prior posts). And I come here and vent about it. But she will never hear me say to run for her life, or get out, that has to be her decision. But refuse to be an ear, nah. That isn't gonna happen, not if she comes to me. I don't go to her, and pull these things out of her, she comes here.
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