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Old 05-23-2018, 07:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Ma'am is not an address restricted by age, any more than sir is, at least once the recipient has reached adulthood. And the terms are widely used, and accepted, in a professional setting in the south. Personally, I far prefer to be called ma'am over "sweetie", "honey" or "dear" (also widely heard here).



Yes.
As so often happens in this particular discussion is it becomes regional. Ma'am is not the norm here in professional settings but I have seen the situation I described. The person was a transplant (I am not sure whether from the South or the MidWest) and while I am sure they meant well, they would ma'am the only other woman in their engineering. The other woman privately asked her not to do it as it constantly brought attention to her age and gender and the younger woman would still do it all the time, in meetings, with outside stakeholders, etc.

No one would call someone "sweetie" or "honey" at work here, it just doesn't happen.
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Old 05-23-2018, 07:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
She said nothing about ma'am-ing them all the time. That would be awkward in any event. I stand by my statement that any sincere show of respect is not rude. Intent is paramount when discussing politeness and rudeness. Obsequiousness is rarely sincere.
I stand corrected. Its just that her comment reminded me of a specific situation where I saw how someone using it as the standard address to a woman a decade or so older and how it actually became "rude" especially, after they asked the younger woman to stop. I do think they legitimately didn't mean it to be rude, but it became an issue over time, especially as they couldn't seem to stop themselves.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I actually kind of get what she means. If someone is say in their 30s and someone is in their 40s, "ma'am"ing them all the time would be a constant reminder that they are older. That is not respectful, especially not if you are in a professional or social setting, and might even be considered rude.


I'm 60, and I "ma'am" and "sir" all the time. Lots of the time, the person is significantly younger than me.


To me, it's not an ageism thing. It's a respect thing. If you're the CEO of the company, and I'm the receptionist, I'll be saying "ma'am" or "sir". Heck, I sir and ma'am lots of people. Call it a respect for your humanity, respect for your job, respect for you being. (Shrugging my shoulders.)
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Old 05-23-2018, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
I think it's rude for a younger adult to say "Sir" or "Ma'am" to an older adult. Both are adults.
What does age have to do with it? If I'm trying to get someone's attention, I'll often say "sir" or "miss".
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:21 PM
 
13,975 posts, read 25,839,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
As so often happens in this particular discussion is it becomes regional. Ma'am is not the norm here in professional settings but I have seen the situation I described. The person was a transplant (I am not sure whether from the South or the MidWest) and while I am sure they meant well, they would ma'am the only other woman in their engineering. The other woman privately asked her not to do it as it constantly brought attention to her age and gender and the younger woman would still do it all the time, in meetings, with outside stakeholders, etc.

No one would call someone "sweetie" or "honey" at work here, it just doesn't happen.
Point taken. I am from the northeast myself. But even now living in the south, ma'am is not generally the default address when you know the name of the person you are addressing. And I would also find that unsettling. We do have a lot of older teens and young adults serving community service hours at the charity I work at. Despite the fact that I wear a name badge indicating my first name, they refer to me as either Miss Mattie or ma'am. The employees I work with every day do not. Familiarity does exist down here.
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wasel View Post
Good grief. This topic always gets so weirdly controversial as if it's going to hurt someone to have to say sir or ma'am (or refer to someone as Mrs or Miss or Mr.)

I see nothing wrong with a minor saying "sir" or "ma'am" etc. (or an adult using those words to an elderly adult that they don't know well.)

But it's not even about the words. Sir and Ma'am etc are the equivalent of a behavioral mnenomic device to prevent us from being sloppy and rude with our language. If you are saying "sir" it is like a mental reminder to check your attitude and how you are coming across.
Well, there's some weird subset of people who think that children are the equals of adults. What's more, they think that ma'am and sir has some weird subtext in terms of class, race, or sexism. I'm a 55-year-old man who uses ma'am and sir to pretty much any adult I don't know by name, from a new client to the cashier at the grocery store. Doesn't seem to have handicapped me in life.
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,352,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Well, there's some weird subset of people who think that children are the equals of adults. What's more, they think that ma'am and sir has some weird subtext in terms of class, race, or sexism. I'm a 55-year-old man who uses ma'am and sir to pretty much any adult I don't know by name, from a new client to the cashier at the grocery store. Doesn't seem to have handicapped me in life.
there also exists a "weird subset of people" who seem to think that speaking in a way that is respectful in the region where you live, is actually disrespectful because it differs from what they believe to be the singular *correct* mode of speaking and behavior and further feel the need to "correct" others or condemn them as being not brought up with manners.

Go figure.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:09 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,643,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Point taken. I am from the northeast myself. But even now living in the south, ma'am is not generally the default address when you know the name of the person you are addressing. And I would also find that unsettling. We do have a lot of older teens and young adults serving community service hours at the charity I work at. Despite the fact that I wear a name badge indicating my first name, they refer to me as either Miss Mattie or ma'am. The employees I work with every day do not. Familiarity does exist down here.
I think it is an interesting dynamic that the South is both more formal with the "sir/ma'am" thing and then also more familiar with the "honey/sweetie" thing.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
I'm 60, and I "ma'am" and "sir" all the time. Lots of the time, the person is significantly younger than me.


To me, it's not an ageism thing. It's a respect thing. If you're the CEO of the company, and I'm the receptionist, I'll be saying "ma'am" or "sir". Heck, I sir and ma'am lots of people. Call it a respect for your humanity, respect for your job, respect for you being. (Shrugging my shoulders.)
Again, I suspect that is regional. I work in academia, and have worked in industry. Here in the NE, it is not the norm to call your boss "sir or ma'am", at least in those field. Even the department head or the lab director, get called by their first name.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,352,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Again, I suspect that is regional. I work in academia, and have worked in industry. Here in the NE, it is not the norm to call your boss "sir or ma'am", at least in those field. Even the department head or the lab director, get called by their first name.
Same in the West/Rocky Mountain West.

I work for a large, international engineering firm. Our CEO was addressed by her first name. My son works for a large, international finance company. The chairman is a recognizable household name. When he was recently visiting the local branch, employees were advised that he expects to be addressed by his first name. He is not a young man.
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