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My local grocery cashiers use my first name, which is printed on my receipt when I use the store's loyalty card. I find it extremely annoying that they feel the need to use my name at all.
I was raised by a military, southern Baptist man, who had a less than desirable childhood....and he promised himself at an early age, that his children would have better, know better and 'do' better.....SOOOO - we all said "yes sir, no sir, thank you sir, please mam, etc." We also used "Mr" and "Mrs" and we didn't slam the doors
My two sons were raised in similar fashion and it's a proud moment to be walking the mall with your grown son, and have him introduce you to someone he works with as "Mom, this is Mr. Soandso" and hear them exchange pleasantries with "yes-sir, it sure is a nice day" or whatever.....and as we leave, Mr. Soandso says to me "That's one fine young man you've got there".......and all it comes down to is respect and politeness.....that's all.....
My dad use to say "the world won't end if you don't say 'sir or mam', but it won't end if you do either " I don't see anything wrong with teaching our children to be kinder gentler people.
"the world won't end if you don't say 'sir or mam', but it won't end if you do either " I don't see anything wrong with teaching our children to be kinder gentler people.
Of course not, there is nothing in the world wrong with teaching your children that. Where it becomes an "issue" is when people expect that the ONLY right way is their way -and that the ONLY way to be "properly respectful" is to follow the cultural norms of their particular culture. That's not true (or very respectful)....As far as the non-use of ma'am or sir being the root of all the problems in society today (as inferred by a previous poster) that is totally ridiculous. If that were true, I'd think we'd see a significant proportional decrease in crime (which is ultimately disrespect) in certain parts of the country and we'd rarely see anything good coming from others. Neither is the case.
Unless they are INSISTING they go against your wishes, I don't think anyone is trying to tell your children how to behave....It sounds like it is more of an invitation rather than a command. If they continue on after your child has politely declined, THEN there might be an issue. There is nothing wrong with letting people know how you'd prefer to be addressed - whether it's "Mrs. Smith", "Ms. Smith", "Miss Elizabeth", or Elizabeth.
Yes, some people INSIST they don't want to be addressed that way ("that's my mother in law!"). Too bad, my children do not use first names with adults, regardless of what they prefer. My children know that it is not about doing what makes everyone else comfortable, it is about being polite and holding true to what are YOUR values, rules and character, and if an adult also invites them to drink with them, tells them they can sit in the front seat, or something else that does not fit into their values, they can decline. Respect is different than obliging somebody's wishes to make them "comfortable".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite
I don't understand. If the three year old can remember that this person is Mrs. Jones and this person is Mr. Smith, why wouldn't they be able to remember this other person over here is Miss Suzanne?
At that age, Miss-Mr.-Mrs.-Ms. is all part of the rest of the name. "Mister Chris", "Mrs. Jones", "Debbie" (the four-year-old next door), "Fido" (the iguana).
At least, unless you're (generic you, not accusatory) one of the people who considers a stand-alone "Mister" or "Missus" to be an appropriate form of address. I kind of think that one sounds a lot like a gender-specific "hey you!" and would cringe to hear my child use it....but I hear it occasionally out in public.
My three year old knows that this person's name is Suzanne Smith, and when I talk about her, I may refer to her as Suzanne, or Suzie (and they know who I'm talking about), but when they refer to her, its Mrs. Smith. They also know that Bob is a Dr., So while I may refer to him as Bob (as we are peers and not just some random Dr.), they need to call him Dr. Jones, not Mr. Jones.
My question to those that use Mr., Ms., Mrs. (b/c my kids DO know how to use it appropriately) and LAST names:
What do you do about older family members without titles, for example, one has a partner and haven't married, we can't use the "uncle" title, but a MR. title seems too formal. And also, there are cousins that are 20+ years older, we don't use any title, because we just don't use "cousin" as a title, and we figured that they are their "peers". What do y'all do?
My question to those that use Mr., Ms., Mrs. (b/c my kids DO know how to use it appropriately) and LAST names:
What do you do about older family members without titles, for example, one has a partner and haven't married, we can't use the "uncle" title, but a MR. title seems too formal. And also, there are cousins that are 20+ years older, we don't use any title, because we just don't use "cousin" as a title, and we figured that they are their "peers". What do y'all do?
cc - we do as you with cousins - my sons refer to my cousin (their second cousin) who is 20+ years older than they are, as "Joel" - not "Mr. XXX" If I have an uncle who I call "Uncle Sam", then my sons also call him "Uncle Sam". If I didn't call an Aunt by "Aunt Pat" - and I was allowed or requested to call her "Pat" - then my grown sons have followed suit, at her request. This was hard when they were younger, because "I" wanted them to call her "Aunt Pat", but she was quick to remind me that I didn't - so why should they?.....
If we are around a family friend of no relation, who is older, and has never married and they are female, then the younger ones (even if just a few years younger) will say "Ms. XXX", if there isn't a family term of endearment in place for her. Same for the men - we use "Mr. XXX" unless they are related....the older the 'kids' got - the more these type of adults in their life have requested/insisted, that they please call them "Betty" or "Andy".
I agree that your children should follow your wishes and any adult should not insist that a child should go against their parents' wishes. I am curious though (since you are so strong on what is correct and what is not), then at what point did it become acceptable for you to discuss "Suzie" using her first name? I would think you'd be calling her Mrs. Smith when referring to her in the third person or in a social setting and only Suzie in a private, more intimate setting. When did that become the norm?
To clarify...at one time, this would have been the only polite way for neighbors to talk: "Good morning Mrs. Jones! I was just noticing how lovely the tulips are between my driveway and Mrs. Smith's driveway. Don't you agree?" Regardless of how close your acquaintence was with either Mrs. Jones or Mrs. Smith. Instead you're more likely to hear "Hi Amanda! Aren't the tulips between my driveway and Suzie's gorgeous?" And "Hi" instead of "hello" or "good morning"? At one time, all of that would have been considered less than perfectly polite.
I'm asking a serious question. In bygone days and societies, that was the norm and referring to a person by their given name was inappropriate....at some point that changed. Why is that change acceptable yet other change is not acceptable? Just food for thought. We all tend to think that how we were brought up or how one specific culture behaves at any given point in history, is "correct"....society and manners do change...sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse and sometimes they just change....
Last edited by maciesmom; 04-12-2010 at 02:13 PM..
If the person in question is not an aunt or uncle, then the child just calls the family member by their first name.
My question, for those who are insistent on "Mr/Mrs." and no exceptions: If a child is 10 and the neighbor, Joe Smith, is 17, does he call him "Mr. Smith?" Or simply "Joe"? What about when Joe Smith turns 18? Is he then worthy of the "Mr. Smith" title? Or is it when he turns 21? At what point is someone "adult" enough to be called "Mr" or "Mrs"? And at what point is the child old enough (or close enough in age to the person in question) to refer to them by their first name?
I can't stand being called "ma'am". It makes me feel old! At only 24, I don't enjoy being called "Mrs. S----" either. I'm Karen. If I am familiar enough with someone to be talking to them on a regular basis, I want to be called by my first name--and anyone who refused to do that after I had asked them to would hurt me, to be quite honest.
I was raised to call people by Mr./Mrs. Last name until I was told what they preferred to be called. My now mother-in-law was really bothered that I called her that while we were dating, and actually asked my husband why I wouldn't call her "Sue". As soon as I knew she wanted to be called that, I did! Then we got married and she requested I call her mom...that one's still really hard for me, but I do it because it makes her happy
Mr./Mrs./ma'am/sir don't necessarily communicate respect, they are just habitual, cultural norms. If you trained your child to say "Absolutely!" every time instead of "yes!", it's not better or worse...it's just a habit. Respect is listening politely, cleaning up after yourself, saying "thank you", and learning to hold an appropriate conversation. Hand shakes, eye contact, being appreciative...that's respect. You can respect someone regardless of what title you give them!
I can't stand being called "ma'am". It makes me feel old! At only 24, I don't enjoy being called "Mrs. S----" either. I'm Karen. If I am familiar enough with someone to be talking to them on a regular basis, I want to be called by my first name--and anyone who refused to do that after I had asked them to would hurt me, to be quite honest.
Really? You would be hurt because a child was perhaps following what their parents taught them.
..As far as the non-use of ma'am or sir being the root of all the problems in society today (as inferred by a previous poster) that is totally ridiculous. If that were true, I'd think we'd see a significant proportional decrease in crime (which is ultimately disrespect) in certain parts of the country and we'd rarely see anything good coming from others. Neither is the case.
With the loss of Sir, Ma'am, Mr. and Mrs., comes the loss of self dicipline. When little things break down, the bigger things begin to break down.
Look at society these days. It's not getting better, it's getting worse. There is less adherence to traffic laws, social laws, moral laws, etc.. People don't look after the community, they look after themselves. They sue at every possible opportunity and only care about themselves when it comes to advancement or status. They always have to have more and be better than everybody else.
Kids grow up with the attitude that everything should be given to them because they deserve it. They are owed college. They are on the same personal level as all adults around them. There is nothing for them to earn as adults because everything is given to them as children. As a result they don't grow up like they used to, they stay home because it's so much easier and they get a free ride and have everything at their fingertips.
Each time a child is allowed an adult behavior or priviledge, that child has that much less to look forward to as an adult. They get bored and selfish.
IMO, Each time we have a breakdown of old fashioned values and manners, there is a breakdown of society and humanity itself.
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