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Old 04-16-2010, 11:46 AM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,075,868 times
Reputation: 32726

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
And he can't work two jobs why?

Parents shouldn't have to throw their offspring out at 18; the offspring should be prepared and ready to move out and do so on their own at 18 or 19.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
So, keep the one who should be prepared and kick out the one who isn't?

Kids should grow up so when they reach the age of adulthood, they are ready to take adult responsibilities and be ready and prepared to move out on their own. ALL kids.

Excuses, excuses, excuses..

I doubt you live in one of the most expensive areas of the country. And even if you do, there is no rule that an adult can't move to a more reasonable area.

Yep It's THEIR future, not mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
how would you do that, and what if it didn't work? And that's not really what you said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
That's true, however, the difference is how each child is raised. Raise them to be dependent on the parent and they will be, for a long, long time. Raise them to be independent and they will be, right on time.

There is no shame for a high school student or recent grad to work at McD's or doing janitorial work, raking and mowing yards, stocking shelves in a grocery, or anything else they can get paid for. Too many teens want clean, well paying jobs where they don't have to work too hard.

While in college, many, many young adults rent a house or large apartment with a number of other students and work in the community. Expenses are minimal but they are still on their own.
No one said a young person shouldn't be doing those kinds of jobs. Of course they should. However, it is difficult to work enough hours at one of these jobs, while going to school, and make enough money to pay for EVERYTHING. Yes, rent can be minimal if you have roommates, but what about car, insurance (car and health), tuition, books, food, utilities, clothing, etc? I think it is nearly impossible for a 20 year old who is in college to be "well established" on their own. Working? sure. paying rent? sure. But "well established" means easily able to pay for ALL expenses, and I would not expect that of a 20 year old STUDENT. I repeat, how would you do it, and what if it didn't work?


Maybe we need to define "on their own". I am certainly not saying the parents should pay for everything until age 25 or 30, but I am certainly ok paying for SOME things as long as the kid is in school.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,379,095 times
Reputation: 41122
Glad that worked out for her. It does sometimes work but to say that one size fits all is not the case.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:50 AM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,680,223 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
You might want to look out the window and read the paper from time to time. We are no longer living in a world where one can graduate from high school and show up at the factory door and get a job that pays a living wage. Nor graduate from college and expect that a job that you have spent 4+ years is there...Many of our jobs have been sent overseas - that is true for both manufacturing and many professional jobs. Only so many people that McDonalds can hire....
I'm well aware of the economy.

Even though college is expensive, living expenses are minimal when renting with a number of other students or people. There are loans and other ways to fund college.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,379,095 times
Reputation: 41122
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
I'm well aware of the economy.

Even though college is expensive, living expenses are minimal when renting with a number of other students or people. There are loans and other ways to fund college.
It doesn't sound like you really ARE "well aware" since you keep bringing up situations that existed a generation ago....

Of course loans etc are available for college - but it all depends on having a job. If one can't find a job, you can't pay the rent, or the loan or anything....Glad it worked out for your "quasi" daughter - hopefully it will continue to and for your other daughter. But you're painting with an awfully broad brush to assume your experience and that of your family is going to work for everyone, and if it doesn't, they must be doing something wrong.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:01 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,680,223 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
No one said a young person shouldn't be doing those kinds of jobs. Of course they should. However, it is difficult to work enough hours at one of these jobs, while going to school, and make enough money to pay for EVERYTHING. Yes, rent can be minimal if you have roommates, but what about car, insurance (car and health), tuition, books, food, utilities, clothing, etc? I think it is nearly impossible for a 20 year old who is in college to be "well established" on their own. Working? sure. paying rent? sure. But "well established" means easily able to pay for ALL expenses, and I would not expect that of a 20 year old STUDENT. I repeat, how would you do it, and what if it didn't work?


Maybe we need to define "on their own". I am certainly not saying the parents should pay for everything until age 25 or 30, but I am certainly ok paying for SOME things as long as the kid is in school.
Rent: Shared
Utilities: Shared
Car: Not necessary
Car insurance: Not necessary
Health insur.: Usually on parent's policy while in school
Tuition: Loans, grants, WORK
Food: Coupons, smart shopping, shared
Clothing: Thrift stores and what they already have.
Books: Loans, grants, WORK

How would you do it? Work; waitress, bartend, clean, flip burgers, cook,...

If it doesn't work, work until money is saved beyond expenses, then try again.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:07 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,680,223 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
It doesn't sound like you really ARE "well aware" since you keep bringing up situations that existed a generation ago....

Of course loans etc are available for college - but it all depends on having a job. If one can't find a job, you can't pay the rent, or the loan or anything....Glad it worked out for your "quasi" daughter - hopefully it will continue to and for your other daughter. But you're painting with an awfully broad brush to assume your experience and that of your family is going to work for everyone, and if it doesn't, they must be doing something wrong.
Never said that, no need to get upset. What I AM saying is that the way kids are raised is what determines how they go out of the house when they become adults.

It CAN be done if the desire is really there. Half of the problems are in the head and attitude. If the parent sends the message that it's impossible, the teen is not going to even try.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,075,868 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Rent: Shared
Utilities: Shared
Car: Not necessary
Car insurance: Not necessary
Health insur.: Usually on parent's policy while in school
Tuition: Loans, grants, WORK
Food: Coupons, smart shopping, shared
Clothing: Thrift stores and what they already have.
Books: Loans, grants, WORK

How would you do it? Work; waitress, bartend, clean, flip burgers, cook,...

If it doesn't work, work until money is saved beyond expenses, then try again.
no, I mean how would YOU the parent "prepare" your child to be ready to be "well established" by the time they are 18-20, and what if they aren't ready?

I waitressed all through college. I'm well aware of how to work and go to school at the same time. I paid rent, but lived at home some too. My parents paid for my car and insurance. I didn't need to quit school to work more, and then start again later. do you know what happens when a college student takes a semester off? They can't be on their parent's insurance anymore. A new expense to think of!
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Camberville
15,830 posts, read 21,343,774 times
Reputation: 28112
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
I'm well aware of the economy.

Even though college is expensive, living expenses are minimal when renting with a number of other students or people. There are loans and other ways to fund college.
In my town one small, closet sized bedroom in a house with 6 other people easily costs $700 a month at the cheapest. That's before electricity, internet, cable, heat (which is a HUGE expense in old buildings in New England), and general living expenses. It's easy to say "don't get internet or cable" but you'd be hard pressed to find roommates who would agree not to have it. I live in the Boston suburbs which makes the situation so "cheap". My brother goes to school in downtown Boston and even though he commutes 45 minutes to get to school, his shared apartment is much more expensive than mine and was considered a steal.

As a contrast, I work 15-20 hours a week (the upper amount that my university will allow for on campus work) and make maybe $550 a month after taxes. It basically pays for my food, medical expenses, and a little bit to put into savings. It took me over a month to find just that job and I spent months looking for a 2nd with no luck. When you are a full time student, classes are the priority. At my small college, it is almost impossible to schedule "blocks" of class so that you can go to class at night and work full time all day. I have never been able to do it. Why would an outside employer hire a college student who has other priorities over an unemployed person who they can call in for any shift?

Luckily I have a merit scholarship that covers most of my tuition so my family pays my "rent" (live in a university owned and operated townhouse with 5 roommates). I have a few friends who are working their way through school but they are not able to take as many classes as me, therefore not graduating on time and having to pay the full sticker price of tuition the last year- scholarships here are only good for 4 years.

In some areas of the country, it might be more doable. I grew up in Georgia and UGA is not only a ridiculously cheap school, but you can live like a king for $400 a month. That's not true many other places.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,379,095 times
Reputation: 41122
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Never said that, no need to get upset. What I AM saying is that the way kids are raised is what determines how they go out of the house when they become adults.

It CAN be done if the desire is really there. Half of the problems are in the head and attitude. If the parent sends the message that it's impossible, the teen is not going to even try.
Well, it sure sounds like that's what you're saying...A job doesn't appear because you "desire" it hard enough - Do you really think all those people are unemployed just aren't looking hard enough? Or aren't willing to do something? You keep inferring that jobs are there if people are willing and that is just not always the case. Are there lazy or directionless children? Of course, but not all people whose parents are helping them through college or until they get their feet on the ground fall into that catagory. I'd venture to guess that most aren't. BTW - keeping your adult child on your health insurance would count as "helping"....
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:23 PM
 
6,764 posts, read 22,030,318 times
Reputation: 4772
I don't get the debate here...particularly the one saying it's good to get your kids out of the nest as soon as possible.

Whatever works for your family is good for your family.

A lazy 25 is something you have created...back in their teen years...so yes, make them work for things, by all means, but saying "They should be out at 19 or 21 because that will make a man or woman out of them'" is silly and simplistic.

Read any paper and see how college is bankrupting our youth. They need a degree to compete, yet each year it costs more and more for these loans. A part time job pays only so much. Come out of college owing thousands and then go work for $10/hr.

And rent an apartment.

Oh, it's okay, four of five roommates will help you learn about life.

I would think MOST young people WANT to become independent and get on their own but it's not doable for many, not at first after college or high school. Again, some of you must live in the south where you can rent a place for $400 a month. Up here, in the Northeast, we pay very high rents. You can only have so many roommates.

Finally, what about all these ADULTS in their 30s and 40s and older moving home again thanks to the recession...households with 3 generations are becoming the norm again. I guess they are all losers, too, along with their 'enabling old' parents.

Last edited by GypsySoul22; 04-16-2010 at 12:29 PM.. Reason: Don't want old people to think I am insulting them.
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