Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-19-2010, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Williamsburg, VA
61 posts, read 174,203 times
Reputation: 65

Advertisements

I don't see why it would be so far fetched to think that spanking could be linked to behavioral issues. I don't think they were saying that 100% of kids who are spanked are more aggressive. They were saying that, on the whole, kids who are corporally punished are more likely to exhibit aggression. It may or may not be true, but it seems like it would be within the realm of possibility.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-19-2010, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Williamsburg, VA
61 posts, read 174,203 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
The saddest thing is when a child breaks down because they just plain can't take any more words crammed into them. Little minds aren't mature enough to keep packing in words they don't understand about feelings and behaviors they don't understand.

Children's minds aren't matured yet, to reason and think on a level condusive to lecturing. If they were, they could sit in college lecture halls and do well. Seriously, when you are finished lecturing, ask your child what they learned. More than likely, he or she will shake their head up and down because they don't understand what they were supposed to take away from all the words.

A quick spank is clear and easily understood. No room for mis-interpretation. No emotional damage; no harm done to their development.

Too many words get in the way of the action/reaction connection.
I think there is a difference between lecturing and telling your children in short and easy to understand language what they did wrong.
I also happen to think we underestimate our kids. They understand far more than they can express as toddlers.
I have never lectured my kids, but I always talk to them. We talk about good and bad behavior. We talk about how we expect them to act before we get out of the car at a restaurant. We engage them by making it fun. We do most of our talking before things get out of hand. It's far from lecturing, and they understand. We can't possibly expect our children to learn from their mistakes if we never talk to them about it.

Do you talk to your children when they mess up, or just spank them?

I also have to respectfully disagree about the whole "no emotional damage, no harm done" aspect to spanking. My eldest daughter is an extremely sensitive child. She has always been empathetic, concerned about others and very much a people-pleaser. Raising a hand to her would have crushed her emotionally. She responds much better to a very brief talk/time out. Usually she just needs a few minutes to get herself together, which she takes very seriously because of her personality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 08:16 AM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 17,328,707 times
Reputation: 8075
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
I was never anti-spanking, and I don't consider spanking to be categorically synonymous with child abuse. I vaguely recall spanking being used in my household, but phased out as we all grew old enough to understand other forms of discipline. I can't say I found it to be a scarring thing, but it wasn't a method of discipline that was overly utilized in my household, either. Just didn't come up that often, as I recall.

That said, in the years I've spent professionally in behavioral sciences, working with severely behaviorally disordered and developmentally disabled children, I've seen the data, and while I'm not opposed to spanking on an ethical level, it's hard to argue for something that really doesn't work that well. The truth is, there are loads of approaches to behavioral discipline that are much, much, much more effective in the long run. Spanking is simply not the most effective approach to behavior modification...the truth is in the data.

Spanking is at best a temporary deterrant, as are all negative reinforcements/punishments. While it makes a big impact in the moment, it does very little to actually reduce unwanted behavior in the long term. Positive reinforcement has been proven to have much more far-reaching desired effects. Children (and all people, really), are simply much more likely to repeat desired behavior if there's a desired payoff for doing so than they are to avoid undesired behavior because there's a negative consequence attached. The desire to access positive incentives is simply more strong in most people than the desire to avoid negative consequences. Often, people will simply learn to manipulate to avoid the negative consequence; the behavior will get sneakier before it will change. Spanking and the like doesn't necessarily make kids refrain from breaking the rules, but it does make them better about not getting caught.

Positive reinforcement of desired behavior, plainly put, works much better in controlling behavior than negative consequences for undesired behavior do.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 08:58 AM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,672,609 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by myjulylily View Post
Do you talk to your children when they mess up, or just spank them?
What do you think. My mouth was never shut when I spanked, and I only spanked when necessary, like most sane parents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Westchester County
1,223 posts, read 1,680,443 times
Reputation: 1235
Once again thanks to those "concerned groups" who who would rather stick their noses in your homes and dictate how ALL parents should raise their children (instead of going after parents who ACTUALLY abuse their children) by passing legislation that makes ANY and ALL types of discipline a crime, then those same so called "experts" then label your child a behavior problem and have the parent put the kid on all kinds of meds (which eventually cause their own side effects i.e. liver damage etc..). Parents need to be allowed to be parents and do what THEY FEEL is best for their children.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 10:04 AM
 
623 posts, read 1,597,730 times
Reputation: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKP440 View Post
Once again thanks to those "concerned groups" who who would rather stick their noses in your homes and dictate how ALL parents should raise their children (instead of going after parents who ACTUALLY abuse their children) by passing legislation that makes ANY and ALL types of discipline a crime, then those same so called "experts" then label your child a behavior problem and have the parent put the kid on all kinds of meds (which eventually cause their own side effects i.e. liver damage etc..). Parents need to be allowed to be parents and do what THEY FEEL is best for their children.
Could not agree more! Also I posted this in this forum and not one of you non spankers made one comment about it. If your going to argue your point you can at least address the fact that there are studies being done on kids that are not spanked and the results are no different and in some cases the kids who are spanked are a little better off as teenagers. Please read the link and respond. I don't care if you spank or don't spank. But you non spankers just think your right and frankly your not.

Some Kids Are Never Spanked - Do They Turn Out Better? - NurtureShock Blog - Newsweek.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 10:18 AM
 
623 posts, read 1,597,730 times
Reputation: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Surprisingly enough, the principles of applied behavior analysis actually apply equally well to non-disabled people, as well (animals, too!). Rewarding desired behavior is just overall more effective. I use it all the time on my decidedly non-disabled partner, friends, family members, and coworkers, works like a charm.

My workplace actually puts this into play to help stave off employee absences. Those employees who rack up zero absences and have no instances of clocking in late each calendar month have a substantial cash bonus divvied up between them at the end of the month. Upon implementation, the number of absences/tardies DRASTICALLY declined from what was the norm when there was a punitive process (writeups, etc.) in place to handle absences and tardies. You're not punished if you have to miss work or come in late due to personal circumstances, you're simply comparatively richly rewarded for consistently showing up and being on time, and the latter's been far more effective in changing employee behavior over the long term. Positive reinforcement is absolutely useful for non-disabled populations, so long as the reinforcement is something considered to be of value.
Uhm.... weren't we talking about spanking kids. Not motivating employees. Seems like a pretty far stretch to lump kids and adults in the same category. Although I agree that kind of positive reinforcment works well for adults and in kids it is not always the way it could/should be done. In some instances kids need to know they have crossed line one to many times and there are consequences when you do that.

Most parents who spank do not do so for every infraction their kids make. It is used rarely but effectively. You would have to agree in your above example that if an employee did not do what was asked after repeated "postive reinforcement" that they would be dealt with in a negative way which in that case they would be fired!

As cited in the study I posted their have been very few studies done on kids who were not spanked so it is hard to argue either side.

Years ago smoking was considered normal. Heck i remember my family smoking in the hospital when I was young! If they never did any studies as to whether smoking was bad for you then we still would be smoking it up on the operating table. In order to come to some conclusive ideas you need to have studies both sides of it before making recommendations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 11:22 AM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,014,469 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Spanking teaches kids that it's ok to hit, and that you should hit others to teach them lessons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerguy View Post
I don't get this line of thought.
Kids learn by example. So when you set the example that the dominant one should hit the disobedient one, they learn. Then it's just a matter of whether they get a sense of dominance over others or remain the submissive one. Get it now?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 11:41 AM
 
623 posts, read 1,597,730 times
Reputation: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Kids learn by example. So when you set the example that the dominant one should hit the disobedient one, they learn. Then it's just a matter of whether they get a sense of dominance over others or remain the submissive one. Get it now?
I don't get what your point is at all. So if they are not spanked then they will be niether dominant or submissive? Seems like a silly arguement your making. Why is it you ignore the study done on kids who are not spanked?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2010, 11:48 AM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,014,469 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleelvis View Post
I don't get what your point is at all. So if they are not spanked then they will be niether dominant or submissive? Seems like a silly arguement your making. Why is it you ignore the study done on kids who are not spanked?
No, the dominant/submissive tendencies happen regardless, it's just whether they learned from their parents that hitting is what the dominant one should do.

Which study are you referring to?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top