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Old 05-06-2010, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
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My younger child has had maybe 2 spankings in her life. Why? She's a naturally well behaved child, gets into very little trouble. likes to do right.

I can't count the spankings my older daughter has had, because she is very headstrong and respects nothing but force.

I'm 53. If I mouthed off to any degree, I immediately got a slap in the face and sometimes a spanking too. That at least slowed down my bad behavior. In fact, I knew a few kids who would get a fist in the mouth for disrespect. Extreme? Maybe. But now, the kids who never had any discipline threaten the lives of teachers at school.
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: In the real world!
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I raised 4 and they got spanked. Not a one of them came out damaged as a result and not one of them are abusers either. So sorry, I don't buy into that study.

(There is a differance between a spanking and a beating though, mine got spanked, not beat up, never spanked anywhere but on their butt!))
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Old 06-27-2010, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Southwest Louisiana
3,087 posts, read 3,207,990 times
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IMO each child is different. There are some kids who were never spanked and they turn out to be great people, well behaved, etc. Then there are some that ARE spanked and they STILL turn out to be deliquent. I could use the vice versa thing, but you know the point I'm trying to make. I don't have a problem w/ physical discipline, but given that you don't strip your child naked and then whip them. OR have them remove their underwear. Stuff like that is just degrading(the later is borderline abuse). I say atleast let them wear their underwear. But I will say, I have some younger cousins, and I confess that there are times I would like to get my belt and tear their asses up, unfortunately in this day and age I'd be locked up, but GOD DAMNIT, so many kids today just run things. I got the belt, the hand, and the switch. But no extension cords, no horse whips, wooden spoons, and hangers, none of that. Like with anything, you have to draw the line somewhere.
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
2,652 posts, read 4,787,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura707 View Post
I raised 4 and they got spanked. Not a one of them came out damaged as a result and not one of them are abusers either. So sorry, I don't buy into that study.

(There is a differance between a spanking and a beating though, mine got spanked, not beat up, never spanked anywhere but on their butt!))
My parents would spank us. We all are four well-adjusted adults.
I see these parents doing so much talking. Kids looking like shut up. Raising hands and saying no. When is the time to pop little Johnny's azz?? Better yet, grab him by the arm and whisper in his ear. I mean really!
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:25 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,806,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phonelady61 View Post
well let me put it this way not one of my kids was ever brought home by the police , involved in any legal incident , never acted out in school etc ... why ? because they were spanked and believe me when I say kids remember the hurt and what they did to get the hurt . I believe in spanking as a deterant to bad behavior no matter what the so called experts say .
Neither of my children was ever brought home by the police or involved in any illegal incidents ever (they are currently 37 and 40). Neither of them was spanked.

Anecdotal evidence is just that.

OTOH


Does Spanking Make Children More Aggressive? - Kathy Riordan - Open Salon

Researchers at Tulane University shared their findings after studying approximately 2,500 mothers of three-year-olds and following them for a period of three to five years.

Those children who were spanked more frequently at the age of three (more than twice a month) seemed to exhibit more aggressive behavior by the age of five, including bullying, threatening and destruction. Although 45.6 percent of mothers in the study did not spank their children at all, 26.5 percent fell into the group who spanked more than twice a month. Many of those mothers in the frequent spanking group were also at other risks for parenting, something which was taken into account by the researchers.

Dorothy
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:28 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,806,244 times
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Originally Posted by littleelvis View Post
Typical response from a "time out parent".

First of all I don't "hit" my kids. There is big difference between spanking and hitting. Spanking is done out of love and hitting is abuse
It always amazes me when someone says *I spank, but I don't hit* The definition of hitting is to strike with the open hand. If you are not doing that how are you spanking?

Sure, you may not be punching or slapping across the face, but you are most certainly hitting.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:30 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,806,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
This brought back memories. My children didnt' laugh when they were in time out. They would wail and cry like they were being tortured. Nothing was holding them in place, but they acted like they were glued to the time out step. I thought it was hillarious.


I remember WISHING my parents would spank me! The lectures seemed endless! I always thought it would be easier and faster to get spanked. Seriously. I was a kid and I felt that way! Trust me, lectures are more torture! LOL
Lecturing and time-outs are not the only kinds of discipline you can use. In fact, discipline as a word means teaching. If you are teaching your child to control his or her own behavior in positive ways, you will need much less punishment because your child will learn how to behave well.

Now, you still might need some consequences once in a while, but you won't need to spank and you may not even need time-outs (except as a way for a very young child to learn to self-calm).
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:35 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,806,244 times
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Originally Posted by littleelvis View Post
Just for fun. Here is a study on kids who have never been spanked. Turns out there not better!!!!

Some Kids Are Never Spanked - Do They Turn Out Better? - NurtureShock Blog - Newsweek.com
The problem with this study is that it doesn't account for the different punishment or discipline that was used with these teens. I object to many spanking studies on this ground as well because there are many confounding variables to take into account.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:47 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,806,244 times
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Originally Posted by wyoquilter View Post
OOPs my bad. The actual quote from the Bible is:

"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." Proverbs 13:24

None the less, God still thought/thinks that sometimes it is necassary to use spanking and to do so is done out of love.
From a historical perspective, King Solomon, author of the book of Proverbs, was recorded as a brutal king who was thirsty for violence and who later opposed the law of God. His sons, who no doubt received corporal punishment, were rebellious, disrespectful and very aggressive. Given King Solomon's lack of family success, is he a good spiritual role model for parenting? In contrast, Jesus Christ was by far the Bible's most peaceful figure. There is no scripture in the New Testament in which Jesus advocates for, admonishes or recommends the use of corporal punishment on children. In stark contrast, he stated that people should treat others the way they wish to be treated. That is hardly a support for violence. Citing isolated Biblical scriptures is not an acceptable argument for using corporal punishment on
children. Using the same technique of taking ancient, isolated scriptures out of context, one could also justify polygamy, racism, slavery, banishing menstruating women from public and stoning to death of those who have sexual relations outside of marriage. Additionally, there is no evidence that the "rod" of the Bible was anything other than a symbolic metaphor for a shepherd's staff, which was used to lead or guide, not hit, sheep.

Here is an explanation of the *rod* that seems reasonable to me given
the compassion for children that Jesus taught.

A PACIFIST LOOKS AT PUNISHMENT

Christian parents are often confused about the issue of corporal punishment, believing that they must spank their child in order to be godly parents; They take literally the phrase, "Spare the rod and spoil the child." Some religious teachers reinforce this notion by quoting scriptures out of context. Among the verses they cite:
"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him" (Proverbs 22:15); "He who spares the rod, hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him" (Proverbs 13:24); and "Do not withhold discipline from a child; punish him with the rod, and save his soul from death" (Proverbs 29:15).

At first reading, these passages might seem to support: spanking. But this is not the only way to interpret them. The term rod is used throughout the Bible in connection with the shepherd's staff: "Your rod and your staff, they comfort me" (Psalms 23:4). The shepherd's staff is, in fact, used to guide wandering sheep along the right path, not to hit sheep who stray. So a compassionate reader could interpret the Bible as saying that parents must lead and guide their children but not harm them. This teaching is developed beautifully in the book A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23, by Philip Keller.

Finally, note that references to the "rod" are found primarily in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Christ preaches compassion, love, and understanding, as does Paul. We would hope that all parents, hearing teachers warn about sparing the rod will remember Paul's words in 1 Corinthians: "Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and the spirit of gentleness?"

-- William Sears

It is generally assumed that "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is taken straight from the Bible, somewhere, although one searches for it there in vain. If "close" counts, the idea is implied in Proverbs 13:24:

He who spares the rod, hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

Ironically, the phrase, as frequently quoted, probably comes from a mock-epic satirical poem written by Samuel Butler between 1663 and 1678-not the Samuel Butler of The Way of All Flesh and Erewhon. Essentially an anti-Puritan tract, Butler's poem, entitled "Hudibras," was patterned after Cervantes's "Don Quixote." The hero, Sir Hudibras, was a hump-backed, pot-bellied, Presbyterian justice with a long, untidy carrot-colored beard. On his half-blind old horse, and with his faithful squire, Ralpho--the English equivalent of Sancho Panza-Sir Hudibras embarked on a crusade to reform England and enforce the laws suppressing sports and other idle amusements.

Butler's burlesque poem portrayed the Puritans as obnoxious nuisances whose hypocrisy and stupidity needed to be exposed. Inadvertently, however, Butter popularized for us, three hundred years later, an aphorism taken literally today by more orthodox descendents of his antipathy.

The tragic scenario and the literary source of this single line comes not from Proverbs but from a setting which finds Sir Hudibras imprisoned in stocks. A widow whom he had been wooing visits him and they discuss at length the possibility of matrimony. She offers to free him if he would consent to a whipping such as lovers endure for their ladies, and which serves virtue and corrects the mistakes of nature. She explains:

And I'll admit you to the place
You claim as due in my good grace.
If matrimony and hangings go
By dest'ny, why not whipping too?
What med'cine else can cure the fits
Of lovers when they lose their wits?
Love is a boy by poets styl'd
Then spare the rod, and spoil the child.

Though the meaning is obscure, it is clear that disciplining children was not being debated but possible escapades between Sir Hudibras and his heroine. Such a questionable and un-biblical context hardly legitimates the use of the phrase as a religious resource, proof-text, or moral guideline for rearing and disciplining children today.

Katherine

The interpretation of this passage is totally off in terms of spanking or beating children.

Nancy Hastings Sehested - Sparing The Rod (http://www.csec.org/csec/sermon/sehested_3831.htm - broken link)

When you hear the word from this passage of "rod," what do you think of? Perhaps a stick for beating and brutalizing, right? But what happens - what happens when we understand the rod in this Proverb as the same kind of rod and staff that comfort in Psalm 23? "Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." The rod and staff are the shepherd's tools for comforting the sheep. It is for caring and protecting, never for beating them to death. A good shepherd delights in his flock. The shepherd will go to whatever lengths necessary to provide the finest grazing, the rich pastures and clean water. The shepherd will do whatever is necessary to provide shelter from the storms and protection from enemies and diseases that sheep are susceptible to.

Jesus said, "I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd gives his life for his sheep." This Good Shepherd's rod and staff comfort the sheep. The rod is thrown out on a path to startle the sheep warning them that they are in danger of wandering into an unsafe place. The shepherd uses the rod to drive off coyotes and wolves. Being stubborn creatures, sheep often get themselves into ridiculous dilemmas, like our children. Children are in need of shepherding like sheep so that they don't stray off into paths that will hurt them or destroy them.

The Proverb says that whoever does not use a rod hates his child. In this context, the word "hates" means that the parent does not value their child and does not protect them. A shepherd who hates his sheep will allow them to wander off in any and every direction on their own with no thought for their safety or for their well being. The shepherd may have freedom, but the shepherd will have no love. What of the shepherd who even goes off to find the lost sheep? A parent who hates their child will not offer the basic cares of a good shepherd like guiding and guarding and nurturing or disciplining.

Childhood, as you know, is a dangerous time. Parents who love their child guide their sons and daughters, giving them a safe place to live and to grow in trust, and granting them well being because they know that they are cared for. To love a child is to set limits. Anything-goes parenting is as damaging to our children's spirit as the opposite extreme of anything doesn't-go parenting.

******************
Jesus said, "Do not respond to evil with evil. Respond to evil by overcoming it with good." We are known as a society by how we treat the children. The wholeness and wellness of our nation depends on the wholeness and wellness of our children, so how are we doing in guiding them and teaching them without breaking their spirits?

Dorothy
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:51 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,806,244 times
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Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
I really don't understand how anyone could look at the difference between the kids of today and the kids of 20 years ago and even begin to question if spanking is a bad thing.
The world has been going to *hell in a handbasket* for a long time...


1. "The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

(Can you guess who said this and when it was said?)

2. "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"
(How about this one?)

3. "The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress."

spoiler space
































1. Attributed to Socrates by Plato

2. Hesiod, 8th century BC.

3. Aristotle

You see the world has always been *going to hell in a handbasket* according to adults.

Dorothy
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