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Old 10-11-2006, 05:40 PM
 
Location: in a house
3,574 posts, read 13,960,625 times
Reputation: 2399

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Or y'all could come to NC where our students' SAT scores rank 48th or 49th,
saved only by SC and / or AL (can't recall which or both)
Seriously, tho, at the majority of high-performing schools here
(and I can speak only of my little piece of heaven), parental involvement
has been the key to student success, both at home and on campus.
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:17 PM
 
70 posts, read 77,687 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreenrose View Post
I am a public school teacher. It is humorous when I read opinions about "bad teachers" and "social agendas" and "families that use schools as babysitters". This type of blatant hostility comes from somewhere deep inside a person who either got picked on as a kid or maybe wasn't called on when he had his hand raised in class. In other words, it's a personal issue. From the real classroom I can tell you that every teacher I work with wants the kids to learn and have good experiences in school. Period. That's it. We are regular people who are community members with mortgages, kids, and plenty of responsibility.
There must be some heavy duty bavarian blown glass BONGS in that teachers lounge. There are some decent teachers out there, but the fact is its the bad ones that can weigh on a childs public school experience. There ARE a whole lot of bad ones. I'm not just speaking of the narrow minded, left wing lunatics. I'm talking about those that barely know the 5th grade material they are teaching. I'm also talking about those who focus purely on the material, and don't give any attention to the social development of their students. Sure, there are plenty of teachers sent from above that can have a very positive effect on a childs life. All of that can be squashed in one year with a few bad teachers. I've seen it happen.

This delusion that teachers have about tenure needs to be squashed. You are not entitled to a job just because you have been doing it for a few years. That way of thinking needs to be changed. In the sales profession a salesperson is only as good as their last sale. A teacher should be graded on their class's last average test score. If your class is only averaging a 70, you should be either terminated, or allowed to seek a non-teaching position within the district. When there is more accountability like that in place, you'll see the attitude change about your profession. As it stands now, we have no idea who is good, and who is bad. You all are allowed to keep your jobs and continue teaching or screwing up kids respectively. If you're a good teacher, then go to your union and push for more accountability.
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Old 10-11-2006, 08:20 PM
 
5 posts, read 11,234 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreenrose View Post
I am a public school teacher. It is humorous when I read opinions about "bad teachers" and "social agendas" and "families that use schools as babysitters". This type of blatant hostility comes from somewhere deep inside a person who either got picked on as a kid or maybe wasn't called on when he had his hand raised in class. In other words, it's a personal issue. From the real classroom I can tell you that every teacher I work with wants the kids to learn and have good experiences in school. Period. That's it. We are regular people who are community members with mortgages, kids, and plenty of responsibility.

OH, ple_ase.. BAD ATTITUDE for a teacher...so if we disagree we have deeop seated problems.... typical

PA teachers are WAY overpaid for "teaching to the test" as they do to make the PSSA test look good, THey whine & strike about EVERYTHING... making kids loose classtime for thei own selfish reasons.
Terrible schools here
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Old 10-11-2006, 08:31 PM
 
5 posts, read 11,234 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldiebutgoodie26 View Post
I think it all depends upon what you are looking for in a school district. I taught third grade this past year in a "good district", and I can tell you that the MAJORITY of the year was spent testing the kids- and prepping them for the PSSA. Third graders! Yes, it was not inner city, the kids were nice and most (certainly not all, not by a long shot) of the parents were OK, but I believe, like everything, YOU as a parent must really, really look into what you want out of your child's school. Public education is so different now. We don't teach thinking skills or creative problem solving- we teach what is on the state test. Trust me on this. The days of creativity in the classroom to meet individual needs are LONG gone with the wind. But, like anything, you need to stay on top of your child's education. Go visit you kids' school, join the PTA, ask questions. Please know that most of what we do is dictated to us, and, like you, we have no idea why we are being asked to do it!

Ooh, that sounded bitter. I'm not, I'm just telling you what I have experienced from the other side of the desk.
EXACTLY !!!
I went to school in AZ & then got some bug to move back here - what a mistake. My adult DD is so much further ahead that PA schools plus she learned life skills.
Teaching to the PSSA is a crime.
My little DS will not go to school here except for a few yrs (unless I homeschool) until we can ger out of here.
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Old 10-11-2006, 08:33 PM
 
70 posts, read 77,687 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreenrose View Post
I am a public school teacher. It is humorous when I read opinions about "bad teachers" and "social agendas" and "families that use schools as babysitters". This type of blatant hostility comes from somewhere deep inside a person who either got picked on as a kid or maybe wasn't called on when he had his hand raised in class. In other words, it's a personal issue. From the real classroom I can tell you that every teacher I work with wants the kids to learn and have good experiences in school. Period. That's it. We are regular people who are community members with mortgages, kids, and plenty of responsibility.
Something weird happened, the first time I posted this it didnt show up. Maybe the word BONG was lost on one of the moderators? Its a piece of drug paraphenelia, not anything vulgar like you may have thought......


************************************************** *****

There must be some heavy duty bavarian blown glass BONGS in that teachers lounge. There are some decent teachers out there, but the fact is its the bad ones that can weigh on a childs public school experience. There ARE a whole lot of bad ones. I'm not just speaking of the narrow minded, left wing lunatics. I'm talking about those that barely know the 5th grade material they are teaching. I'm also talking about those who focus purely on the material, and don't give any attention to the social development of their students. Sure, there are plenty of teachers sent from above that can have a very positive effect on a childs life. All of that can be squashed in one year with a few bad teachers. I've seen it happen.

This delusion that teachers have about tenure needs to be squashed. You are not entitled to a job just because you have been doing it for a few years. That way of thinking needs to be changed. In the sales profession a salesperson is only as good as their last sale. A teacher should be graded on their class's last average test score. If your class is only averaging a 70, you should be either terminated, or allowed to seek a non-teaching position within the district. When there is more accountability like that in place, you'll see the attitude change about your profession. As it stands now, we have no idea who is good, and who is bad. You all are allowed to keep your jobs and continue teaching or screwing up kids respectively. If you're a good teacher, then go to your union and push for more accountability.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Kennett Square, PA
1,793 posts, read 3,137,980 times
Reputation: 2928
Quote:
This delusion that teachers have about tenure needs to be squashed. You are not entitled to a job just because you have been doing it for a few years. That way of thinking needs to be changed. In the sales profession a salesperson is only as good as their last sale. A teacher should be graded on their class's last average test score. If your class is only averaging a 70, you should be either terminated, or allowed to seek a non-teaching position within the district. When there is more accountability like that in place, you'll see the attitude change about your profession. As it stands now, we have no idea who is good, and who is bad. You all are allowed to keep your jobs and continue teaching or screwing up kids respectively. If you're a good teacher, then go to your union and push for more accountability.
I was a young teacher in the mid 80s and started at a whopping $14,500.00 HA! As the new kid on the block, I lost my job due to the re-hiring of a terminated teacher. He lost his job due to on site drunkenness, continually missed meetings, and overall apathy. He was a failed, former network exec. who was looking for an easier life, basically. The union fought for him, and they won. I got bumped out. I was an EXCELLENT teacher, full of enthusiasm, energy and innovation. And that was that. There were no teaching jobs to be had (in my county) during that time.

Since then, I have worked in both the corporate and the educational environments. And let me tell you something: teachers have no clue regarding the real world of work, as I see it. Most have received continual pay raises in an economically-frozen atmosphere; they refuse to pay a penny for their health care benefits which also carry their ENTIRE families. These benefits include full major medical, dental and eye care and are worth close to half of their salaries. IMO, their demands have become insane and obscene in comparison to other employment genres.

I realize how important teaching is (I'm a private tutor), but COME ON!! Time to be realistic and stop relying on tax increases for your income. There are senior citizens who have had to sell their precious homes due to increased school taxes. That's immoral in my book.

Last edited by Yac; 10-12-2006 at 10:57 AM.. Reason: merged
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Old 10-12-2006, 03:40 PM
 
20 posts, read 69,713 times
Reputation: 20
So far in this thread I've read:

*Teachers should be paid based on test scores (ok, but...)

*Also, it is a "crime" for teachers to teach to the test.

Can't have it both ways people!

Yes there are crummy teachers the union protects but I'll bet most employees would love a union to protect them against arbitrary firings and abusive bosses if they could get one. So there are pros and cons of the union. The union should be more proactive in weeding out bad apples in its own ranks.

As for taxes a whopping 40% of all school budgets go to administration, not the teachers, so don't blame teacher salaries so much for taxes.

If you think teachers get paid too much try signing up as a substitute. I'll bet you'll change your mind.
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Kennett Square, PA
1,793 posts, read 3,137,980 times
Reputation: 2928
You're "talking to the choir." I've BEEN a substitute. The experience does not compare since there are no medical benefits, pension, etc., And yes...I do think the teachers in my area are grossly overpaid, regardless of administrative salaries - which are BEYOND obscene. I do agree with the unions becoming proactive to weed out the bad apples, but I highly doubt that will ever happen.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:01 PM
 
70 posts, read 77,687 times
Reputation: 23
Default Yes, we can have it both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanadu View Post
So far in this thread I've read:

*Teachers should be paid based on test scores (ok, but...)

*Also, it is a "crime" for teachers to teach to the test.

Can't have it both ways people!

Yes there are crummy teachers the union protects but I'll bet most employees would love a union to protect them against arbitrary firings and abusive bosses if they could get one. So there are pros and cons of the union. The union should be more proactive in weeding out bad apples in its own ranks.

As for taxes a whopping 40% of all school budgets go to administration, not the teachers, so don't blame teacher salaries so much for taxes.

If you think teachers get paid too much try signing up as a substitute. I'll bet you'll change your mind.
We SHOULD have it both ways, lol. The fact that we don't is PRECISELY the problem! If the curriculum does not prepare for the tests, then what good are the tests? If the tests have nothing to do with the quality of education, then the tests need to be changed. I can't even believe you MADE that statement. It's ridiculous. Of course teachers should be teaching for the tests. The tests should be testing the teaching!

Regardless of all that, none of that justifies a teacher with a few years under their belt coasting through the system. This happens all too often. I once had a teacher that was SO bad in the 10th grade, I used to just sleep in class every day. The teacher and I had a little discussion about it, and she agreed to leave me alone as long as I passed every test she handed out. So I did. The other part of the agreement was, my final grade was to be based 100% on the final exam. I finished that year with a 96%. She was a nice person, and very nice to deal with, but a rotten teacher. I honestly don't know HOW she got the job. All I know is, I couldn't stay awake if I tried.

I also never really said anything about salaries. To the contrary, I think GOOD teachers SHOULD be highly paid. However, I am not willing to fork over taxes that rival private school tuition for some lazy slob who is just coasting through until the summer break, or someone that couldnt make it in the real world and decided to "fall back" on teaching. The answer? Privatization. When you have several publicly held companies competing for business, and at the same time are responsible to shareholders, you'd be surprised at what results can be achieved.

It's pretty simple actually. Lets say the very best teachers, the ones at the top of the pay scale, are paid $100,000 a year. Lets now say that the ones fresh out of school start at $40-50k per year. Everybody else is in between. No more "its my 12th year so I'm due for a raise" mentality. You get your raise when you outperform. The bad teachers get no raise, year after year. Eventually they'll either do better, or quit. Either way the students win.
They pay the $300 to $700 a month for health benefits out of their salary, THEIR share, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Another problem solved. The question remains, how exactly to gauge performance. It's not my business, so I don't pretend to know. I'm sure like in every other business though, it can be done.

Above all, NO MORE UNIONS! They were a much needed and great idea back in the days when there were labor riots. Now unions are really just a magnet for do-nothings and coasters who are looking for handouts they don't deserve. This is precisely why their are very few GOOD teachers left anymore. Who wants to join a profession where no matter what you do you are almost guaranteed the same level of success as the person in the classroom next to you who does NOTHING.

School districts are also a hotbed of corruption, both financial and political. A public company is subject to Sarbanes-Oxley compliance (thanks to Enron). I bet we would see taxes coming down like rain in London if we could move to a system with that level of accountability. As it stands now, we're wasting billions on the current infrastructure. It just doesn't work.

If you're against it, tell me why. If you're for it, any ideas on how to get that started? Writing your public officials is about as good as getting a prison pen-pal, so don't even say it.
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:42 PM
 
21 posts, read 85,489 times
Reputation: 13
Time2Moov, how do you make your living? Are you productive? Do your fellow employees view you as a contributing, highly motivated member of your organization? Do you go to work and give 100% of your time, energy and effort to give your employer a fair exchange for the wages you are paid? If so, then you are no different than me--I am a public school teacher in Pennsylvania. I suspect that you are not this type of employee; in fact, I don't think you have a job at all. You could not survive 10 minutes in the REAL WORLD of education or any other occupational field that requires a positive attitude and a true work ethic. And, by the way, there's no bong or illegal drugs in my workplace. Your facetious little digs and bitter sarcasm are poor substitutes for real insight and intelligence. So, why don't you get a job and then pop off!!!!
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