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Old 10-13-2006, 10:15 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 4,947,406 times
Reputation: 504

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Interesting debate...

I think that it is the trend of today's parents to put so much responsibility on the teacher's part. The education of your kids really has to rest on you and how active you are in your kid's education. To a really, really high degree.

I will tell you WHY I have that opinion. My best friend in high school was cantonese. She did not come to the US till she was in 8th grade. She spoke no English. Her parents were poor. However this girl managed to learn english in 1 year. Accelerate to the top of her class by the time she hit 10th grade. Get a full ride to the school of her dreams by blowing my 1250 SAT score out of the water. And now has a 6 figure job at Deutche Bank.

She did this all with basically all the same teachers I had. And her parents could not afford a tutor, so I was her tutor when she needed help in language class. But they cared about how she spent her off time from school, they motivated her, they praised her. They were there for her when she came home from school and they did not let her associate with problem kids. So what I am trying to say here is that two kids can have the same quality education and one (me) can have a 90 average and a 1250 SAT and the other can be a 95 average student and she was too nice to tell me what her score was.. and yet another with all the same socioeconomc status (basically a clone of me) can have a 70 average and not get anywhere in life.

you might counter by saying this child was exceptional, and I will agree, she is a very smart woman. But I can name tons of other examples too so really how "exceptional" is she??? A parent can be 1000 more effective than any teacher when determining how a child turns out.

Food for thought.

BTW - Our district also had issues with the dreaded tenure. One teacher was a severe alcoholic and physically threatened a child's life infront of a whole class of kids. It did not result in the loss of his job - he lost his job years later after a child was actually assaulted. Another had complaints about him from the students, he did not lose his job until charges of sexual abuse were filed. Both incidents had been brushed aside until it resulted in harm to a student. I am sad to say it was because both had tenure.
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Old 10-13-2006, 10:18 PM
 
70 posts, read 77,770 times
Reputation: 23
Cool Now now, personal attacks? Really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mreenrose View Post
Time2Moov, how do you make your living? Are you productive? Do your fellow employees view you as a contributing, highly motivated member of your organization? Do you go to work and give 100% of your time, energy and effort to give your employer a fair exchange for the wages you are paid? If so, then you are no different than me--I am a public school teacher in Pennsylvania. I suspect that you are not this type of employee; in fact, I don't think you have a job at all. You could not survive 10 minutes in the REAL WORLD of education or any other occupational field that requires a positive attitude and a true work ethic. And, by the way, there's no bong or illegal drugs in my workplace. Your facetious little digs and bitter sarcasm are poor substitutes for real insight and intelligence. So, why don't you get a job and then pop off!!!!

Well folks, there ya have it. It looks like I hit home with this one.

I'm sorry Miss Crabtree, everything is relative. The fact that 50 teachers in a school all think of one another as being extremely productive doesn't surprise me in the least.

The fact is, I do alright in my career. I put in plenty of hours, and am responsible for millions in business for my company. I have very clear goals I have to meet, and guidelines I have to follow. I am compensated fairly well by most peoples standards (not by mine of course), and pay a nice healthy chunk twice a month for my "benefits". My boss actually has to REMIND me to take vacation, and pops online sometimes at 1am to tell me to go to sleep.

However, this thread was not about workaholics in my industry, or how well public school teachers can launch personal attacks against those who question the performance and abilities of those in their field. It was about ranking PA schools. This of course brought us to the quality of education being delivered, and the quality of those delivering it. It would seem to me that if you were one of those that ARE leading the way, and doing an outstanding job, NONE of this would be offending you. In fact, the idea of privatization I brought up in my last post should if anything EXCITE you! After all, you're one of the better ones, right? Therefore wouldn't you like to be truly recognized for you efforts, and watch those who give you a bad name be dispelled from the system?

I think you should take a long hard look at yourself. Why did my post offend you so? Repressed guilt for not giving 100%? Or are you giving 100%, and you know that your effort is not sufficient to get the job done? Something is happening there.

Thanks for making my point Miss C.
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Old 10-14-2006, 06:51 AM
 
21 posts, read 85,554 times
Reputation: 13
time2moov, I took it personally because I AM A TEACHER and you malign teachers. DUH!
I was actually quite curious as to why you are so angry, and I looked at a few of your other posts. Now I know. You despise teachers because the public schools have failed to provide services that your special needs child deserves. Guess what? I am the mom of a child with a learning disability, and I have had to be an advocate for my child in our public school system since the day he entered kindergarten. I have done the best I can for my child as I would imagine you do for your own child. The system has flaws as all big sprawling entities do. I deal with them and get frustrated with them and understand that to blame the teachers is misdirected and a waste of energy that could be used more positively. End of Sermon!

By the way, I find it hilarious that you call me Miss Crabtree cause you have got to be one big ray of sunshine in your little (and I mean little) world!
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Old 10-14-2006, 11:08 AM
 
70 posts, read 77,770 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreenrose View Post
time2moov, I took it personally because I AM A TEACHER and you malign teachers. DUH!
I was actually quite curious as to why you are so angry, and I looked at a few of your other posts. Now I know. You despise teachers because the public schools have failed to provide services that your special needs child deserves. Guess what? I am the mom of a child with a learning disability, and I have had to be an advocate for my child in our public school system since the day he entered kindergarten. I have done the best I can for my child as I would imagine you do for your own child. The system has flaws as all big sprawling entities do. I deal with them and get frustrated with them and understand that to blame the teachers is misdirected and a waste of energy that could be used more positively. End of Sermon!

By the way, I find it hilarious that you call me Miss Crabtree cause you have got to be one big ray of sunshine in your little (and I mean little) world!
Lol, why am I angry? Because my kids are about to start school, and I already KNOW what we're in for. As for you taking it personally, I am commenting on the BAD teachers, that work the tenure/union system and keep their jobs until retirement. If you are NOT one of those teachers, then you shouldnt have a problem. Yet you do, hmmm?

It's right on par though. The minute you question almost ANY teachers credibility they completely FREAK, whether they are good or bad. You have to realize that you have an AWESOME amount of power in your position. You can make or break someone's life. With that power comes a great responsibility. Even though many do, which seems to include yourself, you cannot expect we as parents to completely trust you, your teaching methods, or the administration which governs you. There needs to be MUCH more accountability.

If you think the problems in SD's have nothing to do with teachers, then you are just flat out delusional, and there is nothing more to be said. I agree that there are problems elsewhere, but the change should start with those in direct contact with the students, and work out from there. Some administrator sitting miles away in an office building may ultimately have some effect on my children, but its the teachers that interact every day with them that really count. Anyway, I'm done debating this with you. Everyone knows their personal experience. You may teach at Utopia High School for all I know, but thats not what the rest of us are seeing.

Have a great one Miss Crabtree!
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Old 10-14-2006, 06:59 PM
 
221 posts, read 965,045 times
Reputation: 211
Why don't you homeschool your children? Then YOU can:

Have that AWESOME amount of power over your children, not someone else.
YOU can have that responsibility to make your children's lives- not someone else breaking them.
YOU can completely trust yourself to teach your children- not someone else.
YOU will be held accountable for how your child turns out- not someone else.

I'm serious. You sound like the perfect candidate for homeschooling. CLEARLY, you will not be happy with anyone else's ideas about education, so, why put your children (and their future teachers) in that no-win situation? Homeschool them! That way, YOUR thoughts and attitudes are what your children will learn, not those of others, with whom you disagree.

There. Problem solved. YOU be their teacher.
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Old 10-14-2006, 08:00 PM
 
70 posts, read 77,770 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldiebutgoodie26 View Post
Why don't you homeschool your children? Then YOU can:

Have that AWESOME amount of power over your children, not someone else.
YOU can have that responsibility to make your children's lives- not someone else breaking them.
YOU can completely trust yourself to teach your children- not someone else.
YOU will be held accountable for how your child turns out- not someone else.

I'm serious. You sound like the perfect candidate for homeschooling. CLEARLY, you will not be happy with anyone else's ideas about education, so, why put your children (and their future teachers) in that no-win situation? Homeschool them! That way, YOUR thoughts and attitudes are what your children will learn, not those of others, with whom you disagree.

There. Problem solved. YOU be their teacher.
I'm guessing we have another teacher here?

You should have saved all that typing and stated what you really meant....

"If you don't like the way we teach, teach'em yourself."

which is another way of saying "It's my way or the highway"

Well my union protected little friend, I don't pay school taxes(which is YOUR salary) so I can homeschool my kids, or so you can skate through a career without ever getting the job done. When teachers are no longer earning a living off my tax money, then you can tell me I should just give up and teach them myself.

Sorry, no cigar on the homeschool. I don't cut and run, I stay and fight. Hold on to your jobs, because my kids are coming to a school district near you. You're right, I am a teachers worst nightmare, a BAD teachers that is.
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Old 10-14-2006, 10:56 PM
 
20 posts, read 69,739 times
Reputation: 20
People should be concerned about bad teachers - and they do exist. I remember my HS physics teacher who I think actually drained knowledge out of my brain.

However, Time2moov and other union-bashers should realize that without the union teachers would still be paid $14,000/year just like in the 80's and the only people who would suffer the stresses of teaching for that salary are - no offense ladies - young girls just out of college waiting to get married, and old retired women looking to supplement their Social Security.

With all the sophisticated knowledge in math/science that is required today, do we really want to go back to the time when teachers were glorified babysitters? Some still are, but not NEARLY as many as when I was in school! I'm impressed by how professional most teachers are these days.

Something to think about.
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Old 10-15-2006, 09:23 AM
 
221 posts, read 965,045 times
Reputation: 211
~sigh~
This appears to be yet another case of a parent with some sort of political/economic agenda, whose children will suffer because of their selfishness. Your poor kids.....

I didn't tell you to "give up". From reading your posts, you sound like someone who should not enroll your children in a system with which you clearly have issues.

"I am a teacher's worst nightmare." Utter silliness.
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Old 10-15-2006, 10:14 AM
 
1,330 posts, read 4,947,406 times
Reputation: 504
I am strongly considering homeschooling my kids. 99% convinced I am going to. I think they will be better off and that is no knock on teachers. Even if the teacher is perfect then you still have the rest of the kids in the class to drag your kid down. And never mind the manners that they pick up.
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Old 10-15-2006, 12:46 PM
 
70 posts, read 77,770 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldiebutgoodie26 View Post
~sigh~
This appears to be yet another case of a parent with some sort of political/economic agenda, whose children will suffer because of their selfishness. Your poor kids.....
Yeah, I should just sit back and let the teachers handle it. Lol. YOUR poor kids.
Oh wait, if I do that then I would hear that I wasn't taking enough interest in their education. You see, thats why so many parents appear to NOT have an interest in their kids education. They probably do, but they're too passive to deal with the "educators". Teachers, which to me sound like that covers YOU, don't want parents to take an interest unless they agree 100% with what you are doing. Selfish, lol. Nice.

Quote:
I didn't tell you to "give up". From reading your posts, you sound like someone who should not enroll your children in a system with which you clearly have issues.
Yes, you did. Taking my kids out of public school is giving up on the system. I should not HAVE TO home school my kids. I pay to get them educated by my school disrict. Do you bring your own food to a restaurant and then pay them for the meal when you're done? Besides that it impacts their social/emotional development. The whole purpose of sending my kids to public school and not private school is to build social skills. There is much more diversity in a public school than a private one. Somehow the need to develop these skills has been lost on most people. You cannot get everything from a book or a computer. Ultimately, the adults with the better social skills will end up on top, in the executive level positions. They are also more likely to run a successful business with more than 1 employee. If you stopped doing your research while sitting on the bowl in the teachers lounge, you might know that.

Quote:
"I am a teacher's worst nightmare." Utter silliness.
Finish the entire quote, I said "BAD" teachers. That means if one of my children should be negatively impacted by what I determine to be a "bad" teacher, I will exhaust all means possible to give them a one way ticket to the unemployment office.

Are you suggesting I should just roll over like the majority of sheep out there and let it continue? Sounds like you are.
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