How does the PA school system rank? (Trooper: credit, construction)

[empress]

Hi There My Family And I Are Relocating To Lehigh Valley In July 07 , With Three Boys In School And A Baby. A Friend Had Reccomended Allentown But Now Were Having Second Thoughts For Sure With All The Negativity Were Hearing. Were Leaving Nyc For A Beter Life And More Affordable One Too Would Either Of These Districts Be Affordable And How About Jobs Thare Are May. Less Crime And Drugs Too. Any Info Wuld Help Us In Our Search.thanks.

[vetegnc]

We're thinking of moving to State College (from NC), and when we went to www.greatschools.net, they were rated as a "10" based on scores, etc. I also know a couple of people that live(d) there, and they said the schools were awesome. I am much more comfortable going to a town like that vs. a lg town like philadelphia.
and to give some of you hope, my friend is a principle in IL, and has given a major KICK to the system...she has fired a few people now with tenure...b/c they couldn't do their job. GO FAITH! I have never seen someone with so much talent, desire and constructiveness in her position!

[Time2Moov]

Originally Posted by xanadu

This is known as a strawman. You gave me a hypothetical that rarely exists. Your budget is a cost-cutting one only compared to a very unusual, ultra-rich district's budget.



Except it was never a real average salary to begin with. It was $13K higher than the real average salary.



If I told you the average salary for a plumber was $60K and I could hire one for $50K, you'd say that was a bargain. But if the average salary for a plumber
was only $40K, then that's not a bargain, it's a pay raise. You are advocating a pay raise without admitting it, because you start with an "average" salary that's nowhere near the real average!



Yeah, they'll quit, get so sick from stress they end up in the hospital (happened to a very dear friend of mine on three occasions - an she is not a weak woman!), or, most of the time, try to make everyone else look bad so they can keep their jobs.

Or, if it's a school environment, they'll help the kids cheat on the test.



I'd hate to think you'd give me the last word!

I think you're having trouble conceptualizing. These are not real numbers.

As far as your friend ending up in the hospital, lol, sorry about that. That's what most of us go through every day, day in, day out. I think everyone should have a LITTLE fear of losing their job. Helps keep them on their toes. When there is no fear of losing one's job you end up with the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles. Those from New York are probably laughing out loud right now. This I consider a worst case scenario, but a teacher with 20 years in, and 20 more to go can sometimes be a child's worst enemy if they've lost the passion for the job. Thats where the fear of layoff or termination comes in. It's a hell of a motivator when you have bills to pay.

..and no, I am not advocating a pay raise. Concept, concept, concept!

[NSHL10]

Originally Posted by Time2Moov

I think you're having trouble conceptualizing. These are not real numbers.

As far as your friend ending up in the hospital, lol, sorry about that. That's what most of us go through every day, day in, day out. I think everyone should have a LITTLE fear of losing their job. Helps keep them on their toes. When there is no fear of losing one's job you end up with the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles. Those from New York are probably laughing out loud right now. This I consider a worst case scenario, but a teacher with 20 years in, and 20 more to go can sometimes be a child's worst enemy if they've lost the passion for the job. Thats where the fear of layoff or termination comes in. It's a hell of a motivator when you have bills to pay.

..and no, I am not advocating a pay raise. Concept, concept, concept!

But, if teachers will only keep their jobs based on their students' performance, will they "cherry pick" out the good kids, and leave kids with problems even further behind? You may be further blackballing special needs kids.
I hate paying school taxes as much as the next guy, and I'm no fan of the teachers unions (or any governmental union for that matter), but public school teachers do have it harder than private school teachers. I went to Catholic school where they had the luxury of throwing out kids who couldn't keep up. There was no such thing as special ed or therapy. Public school doesn't have that ability. Also, NCLB diverted funds that could have helped children learn.
I work with some severely handicapped kids who are basically semi comatose for the amount of brain function they have. The fact that they have to be evaluated by testing is moronic, as is the fact that you are wasting the services of a teacher with a masters degree in education to glue macaroni on a piece of construction paper for a 19 year old student to bring home. This teacher could be better used to teach a struggling student how to read or write.
Nothing is perfect, and the educational system certainly isn't. As a health care practicioner, I can assure you there is something more moronic than the educational and health care systems, namely the political system. This is where talking head, misguided individuals try to pass laws about things which they have no ideas for their own monetary gain, usually to the detriment of everyone involved.

[xanadu]

Originally Posted by Time2Moov

I think you're having trouble conceptualizing. These are not real numbers.

Yeah, and I think the reason you didn't use real numbers is if you started with a real salary and then implemented your system the lower rungs would be obviously infeasable. It all comes down to who you want teaching - competent professionals or people one step up from Wal-Mart greeters that somehow managed to drag themselves through night school? You get what you pay for - a hard-nosed money guy like you seem to be should know that.

Originally Posted by Time2Moov

As far as your friend ending up in the hospital, lol, sorry about that. That's what most of us go through every day, day in, day out.

Sounds like you need a Union then. Don't hate teachers for standing up for our rights when other workers won't. No the Union isn't perfect but its preferrable to constant anxiety and pressure pouring down from on high. My bosses know they need to find positive ways to motivate me since the lazy way out of pure fear and intimidation aren't options in a Unionized environment, and you know what? In the long term positive motivation makes everyone's performance higher. Read the research.

Originally Posted by Time2Moov

When there is no fear of losing one's job you end up with the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles. Those from New York are probably laughing out loud right now.

There should be fear only for those not doing their jobs. Not for productive, useful people that might find themselves "unprofitable" for one quarter. That's the difference between the corporate world and education. Privatize education and you'll see good teachers laid off before bad ones. Why? Good teachers tend to have more experience and thus command higher salaries. It happens in corporations all they time - they suffer in the long run but by that time the bosses are all retired.

And, as another respondant to your privitization schemes said, the last thing you want to do is give teachers a financial motive to get bad students to drop out of school. And before you say we can account for drop-out rates in performance pay, ask an honest administrator - most drop-outs are already misclassified as "transfers." There's a million tricks to hide dropouts, unfortunately.

[winnie]

Originally Posted by Time2Moov

When there is no fear of losing one's job you end up with the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles. Those from New York are probably laughing out loud right now.

Oh yes...perhaps the one job you can hold and get a pay raise for being rude to your customers. DH is military and when he was trying to prove his identity he gave the woman his military ID and she THREW it back at him and said "This doesn't mean s%$$ to me". He was in military uniform too. People sitting waiting in line nearly leaped out of their seats when they saw that!

I nearly died on the spot. No wonder they have to patrol the area with cops. Those people are enough to send a priest over the falls.

By far, out of the 5 states I have been licensed in, they have been the absolute WORST mannered DMV. No other state I have lived in had people cringing at the thought of having to deal with their own DMV. What a crock!

[normbarnes]

Schoolmatters.com. The place to go for this information. Good Luck.

Norm

[LisaStroud]

I have recently moved to NC from PA with my husband and two children. I have always been told that the schools up North were so much better than down south. When my children started school in NC they were both so far behind. My son who was making good grades in PA is now failing in NC. He is so far behind. The same goes for my yonger son who is in first grade in NC. He made straight A's in PA and now he is also having trouble keeping up. PA is a large state with a ton of schools. Maybe you will get lucky and find one that you are happy with. They can't all be bad. I actually thouth their school was great! I had no idea they should have been further ahead.

[trip]

Ok. Here goes. I'm typing this for myself (to vent) as much as I am for everyones benefit.
I was a art director & went back to school to become a teacher. I now have been teaching for 6 years.
Let me put this spin on the teacher salary debate:
I have had parents come up to me and tell me how important of an influence I have had on their children. Thanking me for being patient, listening, encouraging them. I get thank-you letters from graduated students explaining how I believed in them, and they had the courage to go on to college.
How do you measure that? How do decide how much to pay someone for having a lifelong impact on a child? If I steer one student in the right direction, that has a direct impact on society. I am contributing to society. How much money should I get paid?
There is no "hard fact" or "product" being created or sold that can be measured. I have friends who are computer programmers who make 3 or 4 times the amount of money I make. Can you compare these jobs and there contribution to society?

Now, as with every job, there are good employees and bad employees. There are definitely bad teachers. They don't make the same contributions as I and many teachers do.

Here is the problem with merit pay. I am a good person, and will tell you that I would never "adjust" grades to get a pay raise. However, I have a family. I have a mortgage, retirement, future college. If you're telling me that if Johnny gets an 88 instead of an 86 in my class and I get a $2,000 raise... Johnny going home with an 88. This is not the way to go...

CPT

[SayNo2PA]

every teacher I know (4 diff counties in west PA schools) ADMIT they are urged to "teach to the test".
PA's teacher strike over a hangnail. Unions have spoiled PA workers & outpriced the US out of many jobs.
YEAH, they really have the kids' best interest at hand when they strike.
Striking teachers should be canned & bring in new ones.
If the State Troopers are FORBIDDEN to strike, why should someone with a cushy job be allowed to strike?
also, they get away without having to upgrade their educations & updating their curriculum on a reg. basis.
The school district taxes are outrageous but then again, look who's in power in this state .I've never had to pay a tax for simple living in a township - yup, I occupy space so I have to pay a tax then the school dist MAKES us fill out a sep. tax for to make sure they are getting their $$.
Let's not forget the kickbacks to friends' contruction companies for rebuilding the same school every 10 yrs
wake up people