Do PA natives consider PA the North or South (Philadelphia: house, restaurant)

[sheena12]

PA is a Mid Atlantic state to be precise, and is geographically in the Northern part of the United States.

Cultural differences within PA are vast and wonderful. I can see the North East, Up - State NY, The North East, Appalachia, (which is a culture and mountain range that runs from NY State to Alabama, it is not 'southern" all though part of the Appalachians are in the south) New England, and the Heartland.

Having had slaves does not make a place or state "southern" Is Long Island New York "Southern"?
They had slaves AND a very active Ku Klux Klan though the 1930s.
It's not in the "south"

We are known for mountains, snow, beautiful displays of Autumn foliage, Quakers, Pennsylvania Dutch, and large metropolitan areas such as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

Any doubts? Come on UP here in February! You won't be water skiing, I can guarantee that!

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I saw a confederate battle standard on a jeep in St. Marys, PA recently. It had a system of horns that played Dixie. Very disturbing... you can't get any more "non-South" than North-Central PA... but there has been a widespread Southernization of rural culture throughout America in recent decades.

Interesting point! And I though that I coined the term "Southernization"!

Rural people all across the US - and some Suburbanites who fancy them selves as rural, especially working class folks, have indeed been embracing everything from Nascar to Mega Churches, country music and right wing politics.

Just more evidence of the cultural split in America.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Interesting point! And I though that I coined the term "Southernization"!

Rural people all across the US - and some Suburbanites who fancy them selves as rural, especially working class folks, have indeed been embracing everything from Nascar to Mega Churches, country music and right wing politics.

Just more evidence of the cultural split in America.

Exactly. Many, many people are very quick to associate "rural" with "Southern," whereas rural attributes are found in every region of this country.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Exactly. Many, many people are very quick to associate "rural" with "Southern," whereas rural attributes are found in every region of this country.

They are. Mass communication has allowed for a cultural drift, that the rural and some suburban working class in many areas have been quick to embrace.

I see it in PA, and in my former state of NY. A hatred of the great cities that bring commerce and culture to each state. Complaints here that Philadelphia and Pittsburgh "drain" PA sound identical to NYs upstate - downstate split.

I too am a "devote Northeasterner" , and if PA were in the south, it would be a place I would visit, not live!

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by tallydude02

A co-worker of mine moved from Beaver County to Bridgeport, CT in the early 1980's to look for work after the steel industry collapsed.

He said his co-workers in CT that he sounded southern and were tired of southerners moving in.

Personally I do not think is a southern state, but to someone from way up north, like New England or the Upper Mid-West, PA, more so western PA, may seem southern to them. I grew up mainly in north-central WV and Waynesburg and I am told I have a southern accent when I venture far into the North. I am also told I sound northern when I venture past North Carolina and Tennessee. Go figure!

I also think the northern areas of WV are not southern either but I'm sure opinions vary on that too.

I lived in New England (MA to be exact) and I have never heard of anyone from New England thinking that Pennsylvania was a "Southern State" - ever.

New Englanders as a whole, are not terribly fond of the South, and for some reasons with which I would agree. PA, along with NY and much of New England were some of the most active states in the Underground Railroad movement, and the Abolitionist Movement.

They are also states with some of the finest, and most elite institutions of higher learning.

PA is well regarded by people in New England.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by tallydude02

A co-worker of mine moved from Beaver County to Bridgeport, CT in the early 1980's to look for work after the steel industry collapsed.

He said his co-workers in CT that he sounded southern and were tired of southerners moving in.

Personally I do not think is a southern state, but to someone from way up north, like New England or the Upper Mid-West, PA, more so western PA, may seem southern to them. I grew up mainly in north-central WV and Waynesburg and I am told I have a southern accent when I venture far into the North. I am also told I sound northern when I venture past North Carolina and Tennessee. Go figure!

I also think the northern areas of WV are not southern either but I'm sure opinions vary on that too.

Having grown up in Beaver County, I will say that many Beaver Countians have the standard Pittsburgh accent, which does have some elements of "southern", at least to ears unaccustomed to hearing "ha hills" for "high heels"; "dahntahn" for downtown, etc.

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I saw a confederate battle standard on a jeep in St. Marys, PA recently. It had a system of horns that played Dixie. Very disturbing... you can't get any more "non-South" than North-Central PA... but there has been a widespread Southernization of rural culture throughout America in recent decades.

I recall seeing confederate flags, confederate flag license plate frames, and the like when I was a kid growing up in BC in the 60s.

I will say, we never considered ourselves southern. We did think W VA was southern, and it wasn't very far away.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Having grown up in Beaver County, I will say that many Beaver Countians have the standard Pittsburgh accent, which does have some elements of "southern", at least to ears unaccustomed to hearing "ha hills" for "high heels"; "dahntahn" for downtown, etc.

It's what could be called "dialectical similarities," but "Pittsburghese" is still overall definitely a Northern Midland dialect. Also, when I hear the strong Pittsburghese accent, I actually think it sounds Scottish. I guess we all pick up on things differently.

On a related note, many people would never consider places like Massachusetts or Rhode Island as Southern, but they too actually speak with a dialectical similarity to the Coastal South in terms of "R-dropping." I would still never confuse a Boston accent for one in Louisiana, though. Much like someone from Southwestern PA would never be confused with someone from, say, Charleston, WV.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Duderino

It's what could be called "dialectical similarities," but "Pittsburghese" is still overall definitely a Northern Midland dialect. Also, when I hear the strong Pittsburghese accent, I actually think it sounds Scottish. I guess we all pick up on things differently.

On a related note, many people would never consider places like Massachusetts or Rhode Island as Southern, but they too actually speak with a dialectical similarity to the Coastal South in terms of "R-dropping." I would still never confuse a Boston accent for one in Louisiana, though. Much like someone from Southwestern PA would never be confused with someone from, say, Charleston, WV.

Well, the Pittsburgh accent would likely sound odd to people in CT. Someone from SW PA could certainly be confused with someone from Wheeling, W VA. The accent is similar, if not the same.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Duderino

It's what could be called "dialectical similarities," but "Pittsburghese" is still overall definitely a Northern Midland dialect. Also, when I hear the strong Pittsburghese accent, I actually think it sounds Scottish. I guess we all pick up on things differently.

On a related note, many people would never consider places like Massachusetts or Rhode Island as Southern, but they too actually speak with a dialectical similarity to the Coastal South in terms of "R-dropping." I would still never confuse a Boston accent for one in Louisiana, though. Much like someone from Southwestern PA would never be confused with someone from, say, Charleston, WV.

From another thread on the PA forum:

Originally Posted by Bodie1120

I live in southwestern PA within the Appalachians and its much like WV and Kentucky, we generally have a southern type of dialect with our own mixed in as well such as "yins" like in Pittsburgh or "crick" instead of "creek". Most of western PA is very hospitable which resembles more of the south, eastern PA represents more of a northern way of living. The state is clearly different on each end but it's everyones personal opinion of how and where they would like to live within the state.

Now I don't know where this person lives. My college roommate was from farther south in PA than I am, and she said she was sometimes "accused" (her word) of being a southerner b/c of the way she talked.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Now I don't know where this person lives. My college roommate was from farther south in PA than I am, and she said she was sometimes "accused" (her word) of being a southerner b/c of the way she talked.

As much as it is a shame and I hate to repeat it, some people seem to associate the Western PA dialect with being "backwoodsy," and by logical extension "Southern." That probably has something to do with it, however ignorant that is.