Philadelphia's black population grows while Pittsburgh's black population shrinks (Allentown: subdivision, quality of life)
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A politician (I forgot who) said that "Pa has Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and everything in between in lower Alabama" You know what after attending State college and traveling back and forth I kind of agree with him
On the other hand, a guy I know from Alabama called that guy (James Carville) a big fat liar, and he's been to central Pennsylvania.
I'm not surprised the population of blacks is clinging in Pittsburgh. As littlemizzpittsburgh says on the Pittsburgh forum, there isn't that much that caters to blacks in the Pittsburgh area for a large metro area and the black people I know seemed to want to move out of the area a lot more than the white people I know.
I agree with this. I am orginally from Brooklyn, NY. I moved to Pittsburgh 2 years ago due to the cost of living in NYC. Moving here I felt a bit of relief bc I didn't have to deal with the hustle and fast paced-ness (that's probably not a word) of NYC. As time went on, coming from such a big city with culture and diversity, I found there's not much Pittsburgh has to offer. It a very black and white city. There are so many areas that are under-developed or have just been abandoned that its insane. I am looking to move to Philly by mid 2012, the only thing I will miss in the burgh is my church but I'm glad the services are available for streaming online. If you are looking for a slow paced city- where you can buy a home pittsburgh is where it's at, other than that look else where.
I am orginally from Brooklyn, NY. I moved to Pittsburgh 2 years ago As time went on, coming from such a big city with culture and diversity, I found there's not much Pittsburgh has to offer. It a very black and white city.
Everyone appreciates Pittsburgh for what it is, except you. Where do you think the problem is?
The same way baltimore is...culture AND geography change gradually. Pittsburgh occupies the same position culturally as it does geographically....same with philadelphia which reflects subtle changes as you go south from ny. There are even noticable cultural.differences in a given area. For example, rivertown culture is different from areas like monto or chesco. Pay attention to context
small things like industry? so steel is a small thing in Pittsburgh's past? the ports and railroads are a small part of Baltimore and Philadelphia's past? without these things the towns either wouldn't exist or would be much smaller, like charleston. I also find the Rust Belt to be kind of a meaningless description. Philadelphia IS a rust belt city AND an east coast university town rolled into one. Baltimore is also very rust belt. I'm not saying places are clones, but it's also false that Pittsburgh=Cleveland...and really, what does any of this have to do with blacks in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh?
We're talking about Philadelphia, not Pittsburgh. You said that Philadelphia is like a rust belt city because of snow and the small thing of the industries that came there after it was already a major city. Rust belt cities do not have ports like the ones Philadelphia does nor are they centered around things like fishing so don't go off the subject. Philadelphia is 100% a Mid-Atlantic, dating back to pre-Revolutionary War city. It only became a city of industry when the new-money people wanted to focus on business and not leisure, which the Old Money people were all about. It's written in the city's history. Before that, of course there were industries but none of them were Rust-Belt related. Philadelphia also never needed a train to be a major city. Philadelphia existed before the Industrial Revolution and though yes, (because the other things that made up the identity of Old Philly moved out and went away), Philadelphia became more identified with blue-collar things, Philadelphia has always been more of a "worldly" city for the elite.
It has to do with it because I was trying to explain why Philadelphia is better positioned in this particular aspect, and you said "Pittsburgh is Mid-Atlantic", when I disagreed and explained why, you said Philadelphia is like a rust belt city because of the industries and because of the snow.
I agree with this. I am orginally from Brooklyn, NY. I moved to Pittsburgh 2 years ago due to the cost of living in NYC. Moving here I felt a bit of relief bc I didn't have to deal with the hustle and fast paced-ness (that's probably not a word) of NYC. As time went on, coming from such a big city with culture and diversity, I found there's not much Pittsburgh has to offer. It a very black and white city. There are so many areas that are under-developed or have just been abandoned that its insane. I am looking to move to Philly by mid 2012, the only thing I will miss in the burgh is my church but I'm glad the services are available for streaming online. If you are looking for a slow paced city- where you can buy a home pittsburgh is where it's at, other than that look else where.
What exactly is Pittsburgh not offering....I think mistake number people make is they don't research the places they're moving too....coming from NYC to almost any city is going to be slow down of pace...and of course NYC is going to offer more because of its sheer scale expecting Pittsburgh to match that and be cheaper at the same time is Unheard of.
It depend on what more important to you. Pittsburgh offers a ton for its size and its a city reinventing itself from decades of decline so its still a work in progress.
While NYC is very diverse, its diversity doesn't blend well at all.....it is still very segregated and each race still pretty much sticks to their side of the tracks.
I don't understand Blacks saying a certain city doesn't cater to blacks....What is "Catering to Blacks in 2011" the Stereotypical Ghetto Fabulous lifestyle??? Outside of that there really is no mainstream "Black Culture" in America....if your talking about Arts and History again more of niche than mainstream and Pittsburgh offers that not on a Grandiose scale but again you need perspective here.
Take a look at this map (which I won't post directly, given it's ridiculously large size). It furthers the idea that the "Rust Belt" is more a cultural overlay than a culture in of itself. Going by this conception, the contiguous Rust Belt spreads from Upstate New York all the way through to Michigan, Wisconsin, and even Iowa. Additional Rust Belt enclaves include St. Louis, Reading, and Camden-Trenton.
Greater Boston, Philadelphia, Allentown-Bethlehem, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh are designated "Recovered Rust Belt" (although I'm skeptical of the fact that Chicago is not included in this category).
And while not its "twin," Pittsburgh has a lot more in common with Cleveland than any large city within the BosWash megalopolis, but you seem to disagree, pman, and I'd like to know why.
... You said that Philadelphia is like a rust belt city because of snow and the small thing of the industries that came there after it was already a major city. Rust belt cities do not have ports like the ones Philadelphia does nor are they centered around things like fishing so don't go off the subject. Philadelphia is 100% a Mid-Atlantic, dating back to pre-Revolutionary War city. It only became a city of industry when the new-money people wanted to focus on business and not leisure, which the Old Money people were all about. It's written in the city's history. Before that, of course there were industries but none of them were Rust-Belt related. Philadelphia also never needed a train to be a major city. Philadelphia existed before the Industrial Revolution and though yes, (because the other things that made up the identity of Old Philly moved out and went away), Philadelphia became more identified with blue-collar things, Philadelphia has always been more of a "worldly" city for the elite.
what on earth are you talking about? snow? charleston, sc was also a major city, like philadelphia. Philadelphia without industry would be more like charleston today than the large metropolis it is. industry is no small thing and the fact you keep repeating that makes me think you are not acquainted with history. the Pennsylvania railroad was, at one time, the largest employer in the world...headquartered in Philadelphia. anyone who says Philadelphia never needed a train to be a major city does not know what he's talking about. the pennsy was created because businessman in Philadelphia correctly thought that they would become irrelevant between the other major ports (NY and Baltimore) and their railroads (NYC and the B&O). North Philadelphia's grand homes and buildings were fueled by manufacturing which is what made it the wealthiest city in the country at the turn of the 20th c. check out north philadelphia and tell me the abandoned factories that used to make ice cream, radio flyer wagons, cadillacs, suits, etc don't remind you of the industrial wastelands of baltimore or cleveland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by couldntthinkofaclevername
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It has to do with it because I was trying to explain why Philadelphia is better positioned in this particular aspect, and you said "Pittsburgh is Mid-Atlantic", when I disagreed and explained why, you said Philadelphia is like a rust belt city because of the industries and because of the snow.
Pittsburgh had a major benefactor named Andrew Carnegie who basically planted the seeds for pittsburgh's renaissance. it's more like an east coast city in that respect with cmu, pitt, and healthcare. even some of its neighborhoods look eastern. imagine what detroit might look like if Michigan was inside city limits. I'm not sure what better positioned is, I only said it's mid-atlantic, which is a geographical designator. certainly Philadelphia has an enviable geographic location in a lot of ways.
Take a look at this map (which I won't post directly, given it's ridiculously large size). It furthers the idea that the "Rust Belt" is more a cultural overlay than a culture in of itself. Going by this conception, the contiguous Rust Belt spreads from Upstate New York all the way through to Michigan, Wisconsin, and even Iowa. Additional Rust Belt enclaves include St. Louis, Reading, and Camden-Trenton.
Greater Boston, Philadelphia, Allentown-Bethlehem, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh are designated "Recovered Rust Belt" (although I'm skeptical of the fact that Chicago is not included in this category).
And while not its "twin," Pittsburgh has a lot more in common with Cleveland than any large city within the BosWash megalopolis, but you seem to disagree, pman, and I'd like to know why.
actually, you're map classifies philadelphia and pittsburgh in the same way, recovered rust belt (though recovered for either city is debatable, recovering maybe)
despite being closer to cleveland geographically, it doesn't have a whole lot more in common. I'd say pittsburgh splits the difference between cleveland and philly.
actually, you're map classifies philadelphia and pittsburgh in the same way, recovered rust belt (though recovered for either city is debatable, recovering maybe)
As I pointed out. I think Philadelphia is further along in the recovery process, but Pittsburgh's economy is definitely diversifying in a positive way as well. Regarding your latter point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman
despite being closer to cleveland geographically, it doesn't have a whole lot more in common. I'd say pittsburgh splits the difference between cleveland and philly.
I love both Philly and the Burgh, but I really don't see many similarities. Not in terms of demographics, culture, or urban landscape. But if there's something you're seeing that I'm not, I really would like to know what that something is.
And while not its "twin," Pittsburgh has a lot more in common with Cleveland than any large city within the BosWash megalopolis, but you seem to disagree, pman, and I'd like to know why.
Pittsburgh and Cleveland aren't as similar now as they were, say 30 years ago. One reason is because of the fundamental demographic changes in the Pittsburgh area vis-a-vis Cleveland, and another reason is that Cleveland held onto its heavy industry longer than Pittsburgh did. In terms of heavy industry, Pittsburgh lost everything by 1990, and had no choice but to change. Cleveland didn't lose all its heavy industry right away, which is why their "rock bottom" was only about three to five years ago, versus Pittsburgh's rock bottom in the mid-1990's. This is why Pittsburgh's economic redevelopment is a good 10 to 12 years ahead of Cleveland's.
Something else to consider is that Pittsburgh is a more east-focused city while Cleveland is a more west-focused city. You're more likely to find ex-Clevelanders in Chicago than ex-Pittsburghers, and you're more likely to find ex-Pittsburghers in Philadelphia and Washington DC than ex-Clevelanders. (New York is its own animal, so you're probably equally likely to find ex-Pittsburghers and ex-Clevelanders there.) These days, Cleveland has strong economic and cultural ties to Pittsburgh, Columbus and New York, but also to cities like Chicago, Detroit and Cincinnati, while Pittsburgh has strong economic and cultural ties to Cleveland, Columbus and New York, but also Washington DC, Baltimore and Philadelphia. Cleveland is a Midwestern city with a few Northeastern qualities. Pittsburgh is a Northeastern city with a few Midwestern qualities.
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