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Old 08-21-2008, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Red Land High School
347 posts, read 1,147,603 times
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Does anyone out there think that Pennsylvania's Anthracite Coal Industry will find itself growing to any degree in the comming years? We need the energy to power this country but will this region be exploited again?
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Red Land High School
347 posts, read 1,147,603 times
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I do not think a major growth is going to happen but I do think that small growth will occur for a short period of time (5-10 years).
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Selinsgrove, PA
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I don't know how much anthracite is left in Pennsylvania. I doubt any new mines would open - with all the regulations it would be cost prohibitive. Plus I think new energy producers will be going to nuclear, hydro or wind as resources rather than coal. Wood and coal stoves now use those wood pellets and even corn. Maybe something like that could be adapted to the energy industry.
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Red Land High School
347 posts, read 1,147,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawne View Post
I don't know how much anthracite is left in Pennsylvania. I doubt any new mines would open - with all the regulations it would be cost prohibitive. Plus I think new energy producers will be going to nuclear, hydro or wind as resources rather than coal. Wood and coal stoves now use those wood pellets and even corn. Maybe something like that could be adapted to the energy industry.
There is about 7 to 12 Billion tons left in the Anthracite Region. That number is down from the original total of 20 Billion tons.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:35 AM
 
Location: wilkes-barre
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I think it will make a small to modest comeback, but nowhere near what we saw at the turn of the last century. Coal is what built this entire region. Back then coal was just about the only fuel source. That's why our region became so prosperous. The entire world needed our coal. It fueled the Industrial Revolution. It was what petroleum is today. Coal will never be the dominate fuel source for the world again. I see a combination of many fuels (including coal) wind, solar, natural gas ect., as the future. That's my two cents.
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:51 PM
 
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If the current energy trend contiues it most certainly will make a huge comeback, it never really died. The anthracite industry although a shadow of its former self is alive and well. You only have to go as far as my forum to see that: Anthracite Coal Forum

I've seen enormous growth over the last 2 years and the last few months have been my best yet when it was usually dead as could be. The reson is simple, the cost comparison is jaw dropping especially if you compare it to oil. There's a fuel calculator here:

FUEL COST CALCULATOR!!! - Anthracite Coal Discussion and News

Here's a quick reference using the calculator, note the efficiency rating for coal units on the calculator is set at 70%. Your typical coal fired unit is about 80% and can go to nearly 90% so be sure to change that to at least 80%. the following figures are using 80% efficiency. If you live in the Northeastern Pennsylvania area the current delivery rate for 1 ton starts around $160. To compare apples to apples you'll have to use the calculator to figure in your own rates.

For comparison purposes to produce 1 million BTU's :

Anthracite Coal = $8
Natural Gas = $19.23 (@ $1.50 per therm)
Corn & Wood pellets = $18.94 (@ $250 per ton)

And (gulp)
Oil = $41.60 (@ $4.50 per gallon)

The demand for Northeastern Pennsylvania anthracite is enormous right now because there is nothing else cheaper. Wood isn't even cheaper at market value and it's much more of PITA.. As little as 5 years ago you could go into a breaker and purchase tens of thousands of tons if you wanted at any time of the year. That is not the case today and some are limiting purchases to small amounts or steady customers which is unheard of at his time of the year. Coal has always been cheaper and always will be, to compete it has to be because no one is going to pay more for coal which requires a little work if they could just flip a switch instead.

There is an estimated 16 billion tons of anthracite in Pennsylvania, of that its estimated 6 billion of it is recoverable. At current production rates that's enough to last more than a thousand years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by W-B proud View Post
Coal will never be the dominate fuel source for the world again.
I don't have any hard numbers but it might be now. For staters 50% of the electricity generated in the U.S. is produced from coal. Other countries like China are even more dependent on it. Should be noted that is bituminous or soft coal. Anthracite is used primarily for residential heating and that's the way it will stay. It'a fraction of percent of overall coal production in the U.S.

As far as the U.S. goes we are the Saudi Arabia, The U.S. controls more than 25% of the worlds know reserves. There's enough recoverable coal in the U.S. to last centuries at current power needs.

Last edited by thecoalman; 08-21-2008 at 04:08 PM..
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Red Land High School
347 posts, read 1,147,603 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
If the current energy trend contiues it most certainly will make a huge comeback, it never really died. The anthracite industry although a shadow of its former self is alive and well. You only have to go as far as my forum to see that: Anthracite Coal Forum

I've seen enormous growth over the last 2 years and the last few months have been my best yet when it was usually dead as could be. The reson is simple, the cost comparison is jaw dropping especially if you compare it to oil. There's a fuel calculator here:

FUEL COST CALCULATOR!!! - Anthracite Coal Discussion and News

Here's a quick reference using the calculator, note the efficiency rating for coal units on the calculator is set at 70%. Your typical coal fired unit is about 80% and can go to nearly 90% so be sure to change that to at least 80%. the following figures are using 80% efficiency. If you live in the Northeastern Pennsylvania area the current delivery rate for 1 ton starts around $160. To compare apples to apples you'll have to use the calculator to figure in your own rates.

For comparison purposes to produce 1 million BTU's :

Anthracite Coal = $8
Natural Gas = $19.23 (@ $1.50 per therm)
Corn & Wood pellets = $18.94 (@ $250 per ton)

And (gulp)
Oil = $41.60 (@ $4.50 per gallon)

The demand for Northeastern Pennsylvania anthracite is enormous right now because there is nothing else cheaper. Wood isn't even cheaper at market value and it's much more of PITA.. As little as 5 years ago you could go into a breaker and purchase tens of thousands of tons if you wanted at any time of the year. That is not the case today and some are limiting purchases to small amounts or steady customers which is unheard of at his time of the year. Coal has always been cheaper and always will be, to compete it has to be because no one is going to pay more for coal which requires a little work if they could just flip a switch instead.

There is an estimated 16 billion tons of anthracite in Pennsylvania, of that its estimated 6 billion of it is recoverable. At current production rates that's enough to last more than a thousand years.




I don't have any hard numbers but it might be now. For staters 50% of the electricity generated in the U.S. is produced from coal. Other countries like China are even more dependent on it. Should be noted that is bituminous or soft coal. Anthracite is used primarily for residential heating and that's the way it will stay. It'a fraction of percent of overall coal production in the U.S.

As far as the U.S. goes we are the Saudi Arabia, The U.S. controls more than 25% of the worlds know reserves. There's enough recoverable coal in the U.S. to last centuries at current power needs.
Personally, I would love to see the industry thriving and prospering like in the "good ol' days" but I think that the revival will stay confined to the "Coal Region". Suplemental heating coal stoves may grow in numbers across the state but I think the main market for anthracite will stay in the Schuylkill/Carbon/Lackawanna/northern Dauphin County.
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:47 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,920,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremontpa View Post
Suplemental heating coal stoves may grow in numbers across the state
Actually a lot of people are looking to put in boilers but there's none to be found. Most manufactures are backed up until spring and that's no exaggeration. For the smaller stokers or hand fired units you're going to wait at least 2 months if not longer. It varies by manufacturer but they all pretty much in the same boat. they can't make enough of them to meet the demand. If anyone is considering this act quick.

Quote:
but I think the main market for anthracite will stay in the Schuylkill/Carbon/Lackawanna/northern Dauphin County.
They are prevalent throughout the NEPA area. I was in the business for 15 years before "retiring".I had customers all over NEPA north of Wilkes Barre and my biggest county was Wyoming by far. I probably had 300 customers within a 10 mile radius of Tunkhannock alone and there was lot more guys than me delivering to that area. That was 3 years ago.

Having said that at least half the people on my forum are form out of state. New York and the other New England states top the list but I also have them from Michigan, Kentucky, Maryland and even Canada. Even with the added cost of transporation the coal is still cheaper than most fuels. someof those people are paying more than $300 a ton which is double what it is here and they are happy to do it.
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Red Land High School
347 posts, read 1,147,603 times
Reputation: 129
WOW! I had no idea that the industry was doing that well. Are the mines in western Schuylkill County doing well. I know there is still a good demand for coal in Tremont. 30% of the homes are heated by coal there.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:03 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,920,524 times
Reputation: 17863
I'm not from down that way but as far as demand they are doing as well as they can, the coal supply will be tight this year. I mentioned this in your thread about Schuylkill County, if the county switches to gas its irrelevant to the people people selling it from a business perspective. There's plenty of customers to take it.
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