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View Poll Results: Do you want your city restored in population?
I live in one of these cities, and an unqualified yes 6 54.55%
I do not live in one of these cities, and an unqualified yes 0 0%
Depends on the people who move in 5 45.45%
Doesn't matter what I think, it will never happen 0 0%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2012, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,287,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
You didn't give me the choice: I live in one of these cities, and an unqualified NO [I don't want the population to explode]
I didn't know Hampton was on the list!
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:18 AM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,312,990 times
Reputation: 7781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
Just because of how much smaller families/households are today, I don't see Pittsburgh ever having a chance to getting close to having 675,000 residents in my lifetime (I'm 21). The only way Pittsburgh would get a population that high is to start building up again with condos and apartment buildings and I don't want that.
Pittsburgh population for select census
1900 321,616
1910 533,905
1950 676,806 <== peak
2010 305,704

Pittsburgh is one of the few places of reasonable size to return to it's population of the late 19th century. Another is Manhattan. A true industrial revolution city, it seems like it is quite beautiful today. I haven't been there in decades.

I agree that Pittsburgh is not going to get the immigration and large families to ever go back to a population of over 600K. Three PNC Plaza at 23 floors and 321' is the highest building built in the last quarter century.

But you might get the condominiums and high rises someday, but they won't bring population back. The construction cost is too high, and the condo's are only available for the very rich. The world wide trend all through Asia and Latin America is the 12-18 story building. The construction techniques for the 12-18 story building are highly developed, and they are able to build them for less money than acres of tenement housing.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,287,663 times
Reputation: 19071
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I agree that Pittsburgh is not going to get the immigration and large families to ever go back to a population of over 600K. Three PNC Plaza at 23 floors and 321' is the highest building built in the last quarter century.
To be fair PNC is currently building a much taller skyscraper that will be amongst the tallest in the city when completed. In addition, there's another high-rise being built just a block away (nearer to Market Square), and there is the possibility of another office tower also being built if a developer decides to go that route instead of renovating the existing building on the site.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
6,327 posts, read 9,101,134 times
Reputation: 4048
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I didn't think that I said that no foreign born immigrants are moving directly to the state. That would make me an idiot. I was trying to characterize the core basis of the population change. Direct immigration from other countries is a relatively minor percentage of the change.

Most citizens who identify as Puerto Rican were born in the lower 48. Yes, you are correct that even if they were born on the island they are not foreign born. And a significant percentage of Latinos in PA cities do identify as Puerto Rican.

If I am not mistaken, Miami is the only city of population over 1/3 million anywhere in any country in the world where more than 50% of the population is foreign born.

Rank Place Percent
1 Miami city, FL 60.6
2 Santa Ana city, CA 48.4
3 Los Angeles city, CA 41.3
4 Anaheim city, CA 40.3
5 San Francisco city, CA 36.7
6 San Jose city, CA 36.5
7 New York city, NY 36.0
8 Long Beach city, CA 30.9
9 Houston city, TX 28.1
10 San Diego city, CA 27.9
11 Oakland city, CA 27.1 B
12 Boston city, MA 27.0
13 Dallas city, TX 26.5
14 Sacramento city, CA 26.4
15 Honolulu CDP, HI 25.5
16 El Paso city, TX 24.9 17
17 Stockton city, CA 24.2
18 Riverside city, CA 23.9
19 Fresno city, CA 22.7
20 Chicago city, IL 22.6
21 Newark city, NJ 22.4
22 Phoenix city, AZ 21.1
22 Las Vegas city, NV 21.1
24 Denver city, CO 20.2
25 Austin city, TX 19.6
26 Aurora city, CO 17.7
27 Minneapolis city, MN 17.6
28 Seattle city, WA 17.2
29 Arlington city, TX 16.6
30 St. Paul city, MN 16.3
31 Fort Worth city, TX 15.6
32 Washington city, DC 14.6
33 Tampa city, FL 14.0
34 Tucson city, AZ 13.8
35 Bakersfield city, CA 13.4
36 Portland city, OR 12.9
37 Mesa city, AZ 12.8
38 Raleigh city, NC 12.3
39 Charlotte city, NC 12.0
40 San Antonio city, TX 11.2
41 Oklahoma City city, OK 10.5
42 Albuquerque city, NM 10.0
42 Philadelphia city, PA 10.0
44 Milwaukee city, WI 9.5
45 Colorado Springs city, CO 9.4
46 Nashville-Davidson (balance), TN 9.0
47 Jacksonville city, FL 8.5
48 Wichita city, KS 8.2
49 Columbus city, OH 8.1
50 Anchorage municipality, AK 8.0
51 Lexington-Fayette, KY 7.8
52 Cleveland city, OH 7.6
53 Pittsburgh city, PA 7.3
54 Omaha city, NE 6.7
55 Detroit city, MI 6.4
56 Atlanta city, GA 6.3
56 Virginia Beach city, VA 6.3
58 Cincinnati city, OH 6.2
59 Baltimore city, MD 6.1
59 Tulsa city, OK 6.1
61 Corpus Christi city, TX 5.9
62 Kansas City city, MO 5.8
63 St. Louis city, MO 5.7
64 Indianapolis city (balance), IN 4.9
65 Buffalo city, NY 4.7
66 Memphis city, TN 4.2
67 New Orleans city, LA 3.4
68 Louisville city, KY 3.2
68 Toledo city, OH 3.2

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, American Community Survey

Of the nine cities that are over 1 million, Philadelphia is the lowest. San Antonio is the most latino city of the nine cities, but most of the population was born in the United States. South Texas was the most heavily populated of the Mexican territories taken by the United States after the Mexican-American war.
I'm surprised to see Atlanta so low on that list considering the influx of Hispanics and Asians into that state since the 90's.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,734,236 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I didn't think that I said that no foreign born immigrants are moving directly to the state. That would make me an idiot. I was trying to characterize the core basis of the population change. Direct immigration from other countries is a relatively minor percentage of the change.

Most citizens who identify as Puerto Rican were born in the lower 48. Yes, you are correct that even if they were born on the island they are not foreign born. And a significant percentage of Latinos in PA cities do identify as Puerto Rican.

If I am not mistaken, Miami is the only city of population over 1/3 million anywhere in any country in the world where more than 50% of the population is foreign born.

Rank Place Percent
1 Miami city, FL 60.6
2 Santa Ana city, CA 48.4
3 Los Angeles city, CA 41.3
4 Anaheim city, CA 40.3
5 San Francisco city, CA 36.7
6 San Jose city, CA 36.5
7 New York city, NY 36.0
8 Long Beach city, CA 30.9
9 Houston city, TX 28.1
10 San Diego city, CA 27.9
11 Oakland city, CA 27.1 B
12 Boston city, MA 27.0
13 Dallas city, TX 26.5
14 Sacramento city, CA 26.4
15 Honolulu CDP, HI 25.5
16 El Paso city, TX 24.9 17
17 Stockton city, CA 24.2
18 Riverside city, CA 23.9
19 Fresno city, CA 22.7
20 Chicago city, IL 22.6
21 Newark city, NJ 22.4
22 Phoenix city, AZ 21.1
22 Las Vegas city, NV 21.1
24 Denver city, CO 20.2
25 Austin city, TX 19.6
26 Aurora city, CO 17.7
27 Minneapolis city, MN 17.6
28 Seattle city, WA 17.2
29 Arlington city, TX 16.6
30 St. Paul city, MN 16.3
31 Fort Worth city, TX 15.6
32 Washington city, DC 14.6
33 Tampa city, FL 14.0
34 Tucson city, AZ 13.8
35 Bakersfield city, CA 13.4
36 Portland city, OR 12.9
37 Mesa city, AZ 12.8
38 Raleigh city, NC 12.3
39 Charlotte city, NC 12.0
40 San Antonio city, TX 11.2
41 Oklahoma City city, OK 10.5
42 Albuquerque city, NM 10.0
42 Philadelphia city, PA 10.0
44 Milwaukee city, WI 9.5
45 Colorado Springs city, CO 9.4
46 Nashville-Davidson (balance), TN 9.0
47 Jacksonville city, FL 8.5
48 Wichita city, KS 8.2
49 Columbus city, OH 8.1
50 Anchorage municipality, AK 8.0
51 Lexington-Fayette, KY 7.8
52 Cleveland city, OH 7.6
53 Pittsburgh city, PA 7.3
54 Omaha city, NE 6.7
55 Detroit city, MI 6.4
56 Atlanta city, GA 6.3
56 Virginia Beach city, VA 6.3
58 Cincinnati city, OH 6.2
59 Baltimore city, MD 6.1
59 Tulsa city, OK 6.1
61 Corpus Christi city, TX 5.9
62 Kansas City city, MO 5.8
63 St. Louis city, MO 5.7
64 Indianapolis city (balance), IN 4.9
65 Buffalo city, NY 4.7
66 Memphis city, TN 4.2
67 New Orleans city, LA 3.4
68 Louisville city, KY 3.2
68 Toledo city, OH 3.2

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, American Community Survey

Of the nine cities that are over 1 million, Philadelphia is the lowest. San Antonio is the most latino city of the nine cities, but most of the population was born in the United States. South Texas was the most heavily populated of the Mexican territories taken by the United States after the Mexican-American war.
Your numbers are dated. I just looked it up last night and Philadelphia was 12%. The claim that the number of foreign born in Philadelphia from another country is insignifcant is a fabrication. None if the facts you've posted support you're claim. Obviously Philadelphia is adding foreign born since its already higher than your numbers. The idea that Puerto ricans aren't coming from the island is wholly incorrect. This puts Charlotte at 10% which is below Philadelphia's 12%. Pa as a whole is remarkably similar to ny state. The real difference is Philly and NYC. I wouldn't have guessed Atlanta is below Pittsburgh but there it is. Do you have a point?

edited to add: it appears you are not using cities but msa which explains the 10% figure
Quote:
Greater Philadelphia had a foreign-born population of 563,603 in 2010. Approximately 10 percent of the Greater Philadelphia region’s population is foreign-born.Greater Philadelphia’s foreign-born population increased by 159,143 (39 percent) between 2000 and 2010.
With 172,415 foreign-born residents, Philadelphia County has the greatest number of foreign-born residents in the DVRPC region, while Mercer County has the highest percentage of foreign-born residents at 19.7 percent.
Gloucester County has the fewest foreign-born residents (13,934), as well as the lowest percentage of foreign-born residents (4.9 percent).
Since 2000, most foreign-born in Greater Philadelphia are from Asia and Latin America. The top three countries of origin for Greater Philadelphia’s foreign-born population are India, Mexico, and China.
Foreign-born residents have a higher percentage of graduate or professional degrees than the native population, but are also more likely to have less than a high school diploma.
http://globalphiladelphia.org/news/d...-data-snapshot
Quote:
Puerto Ricans represent nearly 70% of Philadelphia's 190,000 Hispanics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_..._United_States
the puerto rican population in philadelphia is increasing, many of them coming directly from the island. PA has the third largest population of Puerto Ricans after NY and Florida, seems a bit amiss to assume that people don't move from the island since the odds of them having family in PA is pretty high. initially, the dominicans came from NYC I think, but they're bypassing ny as well as people come directly. and mexicans obviously are not coming from ny.

Last edited by pman; 11-10-2012 at 02:12 PM..
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,734,236 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
Just because of how much smaller families/households are today, I don't see Pittsburgh ever having a chance to getting close to having 675,000 residents in my lifetime (I'm 21). The only way Pittsburgh would get a population that high is to start building up again with condos and apartment buildings and I don't want that.
Doubling the population would give Pittsburgh a similar population density to Philly which could be done without wholesale replacement of neighborhoods with highrises as is happening in places like Santiago
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:07 PM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,312,990 times
Reputation: 7781
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
The claim that the number of foreign born in Philadelphia from another country is insignifcant is a fabrication. None if the facts you've posted support you're claim.
"Philadelphia and Southeastern Pennsylvania have benefited from international migration," said Sue Copella, director of the Pennsylvania State Data Center in Harrisburg, the commonwealth's authority on population analysis. They come to Philadelphia through a reemerging gateway for immigration, she said, or "up from Baltimore and down from New York."

I concede. If I can find some hard numbers I will repost.

Bottom Line change from 2000 to 2010
Manhattan: 1,537,195 -> 1,585,873 = 48,678
Philadelphia: 1,517,550 -> 1,526,006 = 8,456

Philadelphia added 58,683 Latino residents, although it is very unlikely that more than a quarter of that number could have been from births - deaths .

I will try and find a complete set of vital statistics (births/deaths, domestic immigration/emigration, and foreign immigration/emigration, Island of PR immigration/emigration) if they are published somewhere.

We know that NY and NJ state increased Latino population by 987,292 over the 10 year period, and PA state increased Latino population by 325,572, but that is from all sources of population increase.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 11-10-2012 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,734,236 times
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You can't prove it because it isn't true. Mind you I recognize many do come from there but its false that all but an insignificant share come from ny. A good chunk of the Latino increase were Puerto ricans (biggest share)and Mexicans...the former not being foreign born and a mix of island and mainland while the latter is from Mexico.
News - philly.com
Philadelphia also added at least 8k high income residents.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:27 PM
 
14,612 posts, read 17,312,990 times
Reputation: 7781
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
You can't prove it because it isn't true. Mind you I recognize many do come from there but its false that all but an insignificant share come from ny. A good chunk of the Latino increase were Puerto ricans (biggest share)and Mexicans...the former not being foreign born and a mix of island and mainland while the latter is from Mexico.
News - philly.com
Philadelphia also added at least 8k high income residents.
I have conceded that I don't have the precise data, and I am not sure that data even exists. I regret using the word "insignificant" since it is imprecise, but I am willing to bet that the actual percentage is far lower for Philadelphia than for any of the other city over 1 million (and a lot of others). Clearly there are cities with little or no immigration (like Pittsburgh).

A human interest story about 200 people coming from one village in Mexico is not statistically significant. There are dozens of cases like that out West where a large percentage of one village goes to the same city in the US.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,734,236 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I have conceded that I don't have the precise data, and I am not sure that data even exists. I regret using the word "insignificant" since it is imprecise, but I am willing to bet that the actual percentage is far lower for Philadelphia than for any of the other city over 1 million (and a lot of others). Clearly there are cities with little or no immigration (like Pittsburgh).
pittsburgh itself is well above buffalo, the only other NY state city. Philadelphia was much like buffalo a generation ago when immigration had cratered. it's picked back up, both via NY and via direct connections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
A human interest story about 200 people coming from one village in Mexico is not statistically significant. There are dozens of cases like that out West where a large percentage of one village goes to the same city in the US.
I didn't claim it was "Statistically" significant but other than your own bias you have no reason to think it's not representative. the fact is you claims are based solely on bias, there is no proof that people aren't coming directly. that's an entirely separate claim from saying "Philadelphia proportion of foreign born is lower than its peers"
the fact is, different immigrants come from different places...it's oftentimes hyperlocal. even in the old days there were stories of italians meeting that had lived just blocks apart in the old country, that isn't by chance. the same happens today. once connections are established, in this case with philadelphia, people tell their friends and family, and in turn, those people have a place to stay.
Quote:
In the last decade, an estimated 2,500 of San Mateo's 4,500 residents have moved to the Philadelphia region to find work, according to a Latino advocacy group.
Mexican Philadelphians develop cornmeal project to aid their native land - Philly.com
they're not coming from nyc, but the dominicans often are
Quote:
From Hispaniola, the Caribbean island the Dominican Republic shares with Haiti (the Western Hemisphere's poorest nation), financially strapped Dominicans have migrated here in large numbers for about a decade, often with visas issued in Puerto Rico, and after struggling first with New York's high cost of living.
http://articles.philly.com/2008-06-2...n-immigrants/2

though there are exceptions there where certain towns have begun to send people directly. if immigration continues to pick up as it has been, it should probably reach 18% or so. sure, it's not ny, but so what? Pittsburgh isn't buffalo either so in that sense there's a good chance the balance in PA will be healthier than that in ny state. I foresee population growth happening in pittsburgh before buffalo.(if it hasn't already)
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