How would Pennsylvania fare if both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia were never part of the state (York: 2013, best schools)

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

There always anecdotal exceptions, though. For example, Pittsburgh didn't make that list, yet my employer, PNC, which is probably the second-largest employer here, does offer same-sex partner benefits.

I can see what you are saying and at least in my experience the main difference I have seen between Philly and some other major cities in terms of acceptance is related to the suburbs. In San Francisco for instance, there seems to be just as much acceptance in the suburbs where I have witnessed some homophobia in the Philly suburbs. Also, it does depend on the employer in terms of how they feel about it, but I was surprised how many companies in Philly still do not offer same sex couple benefits.

[R.J. MacReady]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Forest Hills is a pretty progressive suburb of Pittsburgh. I'm surprised you endured such backwards behavior there, R.J. MacReady. Pittsburgh is the most gay-friendly place I've lived, and that includes suburban Washington, DC.

Ooops....meant Forest Hill (on 192 in Union county). Sorry about that typo

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by colorfulchic83

My family from NYC & North Jersey came to visit me after I moved to NEPA, and all of them said, "WHY are you living in Penntucky"? After years of trying to see the good here to no avail, I'm going back home. Its no place for a multi-ethnic family, with progressive views.

These numbers come from the 2010 Census...


4,008,994 - Philadelphia MSA*
2,356,285 - Pittsburgh MSA
712,481 - Allentown/Bethlehem MSA*
----------
7,077,760 - TOTAL

(*: Population figures include only Pennsylvania counties.)


That's over half of "Penntucky's" population in those three metropolitan areas alone. And it doesn't even include Harrisburg, which is the state capital with a diverse population, or State College, which has the social atmosphere of a typical college town.

We're sorry you didn't find the enlightenment you were expecting in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area, but you cannot say that most of Pennsylvania is similar when the three metropolitan areas you've named as being tolerant have most of the state's population in the first place.

[pman]

Originally Posted by track2514

I have lived in both Philly and Minneapolis before and I have personally witnessed a much higher level of homophobia in and around Philly than other comparable cities. In fact the company I worked for in Philly did not even offer same sex partner benefits, yet this is commonplace in most cities that are accepting of gay couples.

where? I've witnessed homophobia from some of the poor neighborhoods but in general, I don't see what you're saying. the level of homophobia isn't different than, say, boston or chicago. what comparable cities are you talking about?

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by pman

where? I've witnessed homophobia from some of the poor neighborhoods but in general, I don't see what you're saying. the level of homophobia isn't different than, say, boston or chicago. what comparable cities are you talking about?

I can't really compare Philly to Boston or Chicago because I never really spent any great amount of time in these places other than visiting. I visit San Francisco very frequently and I have lived in Minneapolis and Philly. If I were to rate these cities on acceptance I would rate as follows:

1) San Francisco
2) Minneapolis
3) Philly

Again this is my own opinion and based on what I have seen and witnessed. Even in Menlo Park or Palo Alto people are very accepting and this is the biggest issue I have noticed in Philly. The suburbs seem to be less accepting of gay couples. Additionally, it was not just my company in Philly that did not offer same sex couple benefits, many of my friends also mentioned that there were no same sex partner benefits. Many of the Jersey suburbs of Philly are not as accepting and I have also witnessed some of these issues in West Chester, Doylestown, and Lansdale.

[pman]

Originally Posted by track2514

I can't really compare Philly to Boston or Chicago because I never really spent any great amount of time in these places other than visiting. I visit San Francisco very frequently and I have lived in Minneapolis and Philly. If I were to rate these cities on acceptance I would rate as follows:

1) San Francisco
2) Minneapolis
3) Philly

Again this is my own opinion and based on what I have seen and witnessed. Even in Menlo Park or Palo Alto people are very accepting and this is the biggest issue I have noticed in Philly. The suburbs seem to be less accepting of gay couples. Additionally, it was not just my company in Philly that did not offer same sex couple benefits, many of my friends also mentioned that there were no same sex partner benefits. Many of the Jersey suburbs of Philly are not as accepting and I have also witnessed some of these issues in West Chester, Doylestown, and Lansdale.

the suburbs vary greatly. I can see jersey (though they vary greatly as well, some of the PATCO towns are very popular with gay couples but other parts of the jersey suburbs are full of people who fled the city to get away from blacks and gays. I don't know that I'd say west chester is intolerant, I don't know those other towns very well. are you commenting on the use of the word homo? I've spent a good deal of time in chicago, less in boston, and very little in SF though I don't find it surprising it would be more "tolerant". it's a different world out there, a bit too PC which can be confused with tolerance. at any rate, for the most part, intolerance (racial or otherwise) seems to be linked to economic status. Philly is a poorer city so there are a greater proportion of intolerant people. of course, Philly is a lot more forthright than California so if one comes from a place like california, I could see people feeling insulted due to cultural differences. in fact, I have seen it.

take the gayborhood, for example. originally it might have been derisive but, over time, it simply became a name. some outsiders think it's barbaric but is it really? it's straight and to the point...even if it's core function is no longer necessary (a haven for gay people because other places aren't accepting). my gay banker LOVES doylestown despite his VERY long commute. who knows, perception is a tricky thing.

[trackstar13]

pman

I think we can agree about people in Philly being more outspoken and this may in fact be the issue. When I lived in Minneapolis I noticed that people were not only very accepting, but also very polite and reserved. Even if someone disapproved of a gay couple they would rarely say anything. In Philly people are very in your face and they are not shy about telling you how they feel. In Philly, I remember an old lady swearing at me for stealing her parking spot once, despite the fact I never saw her waiting for the spot. There may be similar levels of homophobia in other cities, but I think this outward expression of distaste in Philly makes it seem worse. For instance, I heard many people use the "F" word associated with being a gay male many times in the Philly area and this is something you just don't hear very often in most places.

[pman]

Originally Posted by track2514

pman
I think we can agree about people in Philly being more outspoken and this may in fact be the issue. When I lived in Minneapolis I noticed that people were not only very accepting, but also very polite and reserved. Even if someone disapproved of a gay couple they would rarely say anything. In Philly people are very in your face and they are not shy about telling you how they feel. In Philly, I remember an old lady swearing at me for stealing her parking spot once, despite the fact I never saw her waiting for the spot. There may be similar levels of homophobia in other cities, but I think this outward expression of distaste in Philly makes it seem worse. For instance, I heard many people use the "F" word associated with being a gay male many times in the Philly area and this is something you just don't hear very often in most places.

oddly, the people I know in philly who regularly use that word are gay. in the suburbs, I haven't heard that word since high school. perceptions are a funny thing. in philly, people insult each other all the time, and really, much of time, it means nothing. the kind of back and forth that goes on at work would be considered offensive in places like texas and possibly california but is really a form of endearment here. mind you, I have no doubt SF is more gay tolerant but I'd suggest that a real comparison to comparable cities would be extremely difficult.

[mancat100]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

These numbers come from the 2010 Census...


4,008,994 - Philadelphia MSA*
2,356,285 - Pittsburgh MSA
712,481 - Allentown/Bethlehem MSA*
----------
7,077,760 - TOTAL

(*: Population figures include only Pennsylvania counties.)


That's over half of "Penntucky's" population in those three metropolitan areas alone. And it doesn't even include Harrisburg, which is the state capital with a diverse population, or State College, which has the social atmosphere of a typical college town.

We're sorry you didn't find the enlightenment you were expecting in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area, but you cannot say that most of Pennsylvania is similar when the three metropolitan areas you've named as being tolerant have most of the state's population in the first place.

Thank you. This is a great point. Even though most of the landmass of PA may be in the sticks, the bulk of the actual population is not rural, but urban/suburban.

So, the most typical Pennsylvanian is not a Potter Countian, it's a Montgomery Countian.

[colorfulchic83]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

These numbers come from the 2010 Census...


4,008,994 - Philadelphia MSA*
2,356,285 - Pittsburgh MSA
712,481 - Allentown/Bethlehem MSA*
----------
7,077,760 - TOTAL

(*: Population figures include only Pennsylvania counties.)


That's over half of "Penntucky's" population in those three metropolitan areas alone. And it doesn't even include Harrisburg, which is the state capital with a diverse population, or State College, which has the social atmosphere of a typical college town.

We're sorry you didn't find the enlightenment you were expecting in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area, but you cannot say that most of Pennsylvania is similar when the three metropolitan areas you've named as being tolerant have most of the state's population in the first place.

I meant geographically, not most of the people. Most areas in Pa, tend to have overt racism/xenophobia. The urban areas you mentioned are not what I was speaking of. I don't even think of them when I think Pa. Yeah, they are part of Pa, but most folks from NJ/NY just call those areas by their names because they are so different from the rest of the state. I've been to Lehigh & Philly, and both are nice. I heard Pittsburgh folks are nice too from friends who live there, but different a atmosphere from other urban areas in Pa(its more mid-west urban). Actually, even in the Poconos locals are relatively harmless, nice folks, who even initiated hellos when I'd visit family there. Here these bigots won't return a neighborly hello! Even the bigots in the Poconos have enough social decency to at least be civil, and are not as vitriol to "different" people as the folks in the city of Wilkes-Barre & surrounding areas.

I don't care what anyone says, especially those who are white, or "BLEND IN"/look white. Aside from the areas mentioned, you will run into hatred, very overt hatred, if you don't fit the description, of "white & right". Even members of the gay & lesbian community here, have racists. Of course not all, but I never met a racist/xenophobic gay person in NJ/NYC. In NJ they are kind, and understanding to the plight of those who are discriminated against. You'd think knowing hate, they wouldn't do it to others. Well, in Pa, they do! Compassion & empathy is not this region's forte, especially if you are not white.

If you are a minority, and reading this, or even white, and you hate bigotry, trust me do NOT move here. You will see it once your minority friends visit. I only comment for you, so you do NOT come here blindly, thinking, "oh all people can change if you educate them", like I did. They do NOT want education, and reject any & ALL efforts to bring about racial/ethnic harmony. They do NOT want to understand people who are different. They prefer to hold on to their ignorance and hatred. A sporadic nice person or town here & there isn't enough to have a decent quality of life. Then there is the awful healthcare & schools to consider. Trust me there were so many things to be grateful for living in NJ/NY. Things I took for granted and miss greatly since I moved. Even NJ's republicans are better than Pa's democrats(well at least Luzerne County's). Id rather have Chris Christie run things than Corbett any day.

Use REAL statistics, off this board, trust me you will find what I say is true. Ask people from your own ethnic background, people who moved from your state to Pa, or those who have YOUR beliefs & views, how they fair here before you move. Relocation sites, often don't tell the reality of a place, especially if the people are insensitive to the plight of a people, or simply don't encounter it because they are not the target. Many will just praise their home town, and reject all who mention anything that brings a negative light, no matter how true it is.

Of course all of Pa isn't like this. I mentioned that many times, although people are so hellbent on making pa look like its not racist when it is, they didn't catch it. In reality, most of Pa is very rural, and NOTHING like Philly, Lehigh Valley & Pittsburgh. There are folks in Pa who have never seen a AA person, and they call them "colored".
I don't see why people, often those who are NOT visibly minorities, want to deny this is a problem in Pa. Yes, some areas are far worse than others, but there is a good reason why people call it Penntucky, or compare it to other southern states. Deny all you want. Its clear that for many who live in Pa, or at least on Pa's forum, a problem is only a problem when it affects them directly. So yeah, it would be horrible if those urban areas were to no longer be part of Pa.