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Old 04-09-2013, 10:26 PM
 
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
2,773 posts, read 3,834,624 times
Reputation: 2066

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I'm shocked that Erie doesn't have a community college! Heck, even Butler County has a community college.

I thought community colleges were the norm in PA. I guess we're so spoiled in Pittsburgh.
Yes the Pittsburgh metro has everything you need in terms of higher education and it is frustrating how the city of Erie does not have easy access to affordable higher education. Edinboro and Penn State Behrend are not easy to get to for many residents and they also do not offer as many programs as a community college. Also, there is a price difference and community colleges are definitely the most affordable option for many students.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,723 posts, read 2,215,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by track2514 View Post
pman

This is an interesting situation and I think it is definitely a combination of issues, including the following:

1) The recent move of the GE transportation headquarters, essentially making the Erie plant just another factory.
2) The age of the facility in Erie and the use of space vs. the Fort Worth facility.
3) The lack of a community/technical college in Erie county to educate lower level workers.
4) Wages are an issue, but I think they are not as big of an issue as the aforementioned points.
5) The state tax environment for PA is not overly conducive to business, but this is not really a big issue for a company the size of GE because of the available write offs and deductions.

Overall, this is bad for Erie, but I am not overly surprised and Erie will have to work hard to manage the loss of these quality jobs.
1 - Tells me this has been in the works for a while and was probably decided a while ago.
2 - Ditto above.
3 - Erie citizens have been criticizing the idea for years. Most people there don't want one. Meadville has problems like this in the tool & die industry. The 'higher education' industry has seen to it that most businesses don't have apprenticeships any more - workers are expected to pay their own money to train themselves rather than the company investing in them...just like manufacturing in general, many problems have festered over the years.
4 - Wages are always an issue.
5 - Just speculation on my part, but some people at the top may prefer to live in state with no income tax. I don't know how much of a factor their preferences are, or if that is even the case.

Last edited by Clint.; 04-09-2013 at 10:46 PM..
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:14 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,645,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
That must be a great comfort to those 900 some people losing their jobs, and to the entire community.
It's like when the steel industry collapsed. They'll be paying $18 to $23.50 per hour in Texas They were paying $10 more per hour in Erie. That means the Erie workers were making $28 to $32 per hour. That's overpaid for manufacturing. Erie's cost of living isn't high. They had a good ride while they could. They won't be able to find manufacturing jobs in Erie for $18 to $23.50. The union should have negotiated pay cuts to prevent the move to Texas, but I'm sure workers would have been bullheaded just like steelworkers were in the 70s.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,734,236 times
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i dont buy the wage slave argument. ge is paying more than the average there and it probably is a fair wage and they arent paying union dues either. it does seem that erie workers might be paid
too much given the locale. the head honchos moved to chicago (a separate question is why they couldnt have been in pittsburgh or even philly).its possible they simply wanted to be close to bnsf. technical training is always an issue, particularly is pay is a third higher.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
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GE is number 6 on the Fortune 500 list and is consistently one of the most profitable corporations in the United States. As long as they are keeping work in the U.S. it sure as hell better pay more than the average. The same work at $8 an hour in Mexico would be considered a fair wage by the locals there - regardless of how many billions of dollars of profit their work helps generate for others - maybe that's the net stop.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:53 AM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,645,904 times
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I'm just saying that $18 to $23.50 per hour is a fair wage for manufacturing in Erie. They were overpaid at $10 more per hour than that. GE could have left the country instead of going to Texas. It's illogical to assume it's the next step. There's no reason to wait. I'm glad it stayed in the county. I'm wondering if the Erie workers have the option to take a pay cut and relocate to Texas, at their own expense of course.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:57 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,801,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint. View Post
I'm surprised Erie was able to hold on to GE for as long as it did. For decades now businesses have fled to locales where they can exploit cheap labor, whether China, Mexico, Texas, or really anywhere in the Southern US. It's good for the workers in those places that have historically been so poor and are easy to exploit and thus make good wage slaves who don't seem to care they're not getting a fair deal based on corporate earnings from their labor, but difficult for workers here who do quality work and are shut out.
GE as company has two main objectives, to remain competitive and make as much profit as they can. These are both closely related. If moving their operations to Texas is going to give them a competitive advantage and increase profits that's what they are going to do.

FYI I'd hardly call $18 to $23 an hour slave wages, I'd imagine they also have a decent benefits package too.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:45 AM
 
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
2,773 posts, read 3,834,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
It's like when the steel industry collapsed. They'll be paying $18 to $23.50 per hour in Texas They were paying $10 more per hour in Erie. That means the Erie workers were making $28 to $32 per hour. That's overpaid for manufacturing. Erie's cost of living isn't high. They had a good ride while they could. They won't be able to find manufacturing jobs in Erie for $18 to $23.50. The union should have negotiated pay cuts to prevent the move to Texas, but I'm sure workers would have been bullheaded just like steelworkers were in the 70s.
I have seen conflicting information reported about the wages in Texas and there was a report on the local news when the factory was completed in Fort Worth and they had a job fair. Most of the job candidates interviewed said the salaries were between $10-$11 per hour so the wage disparity may be greater than is being reported currently. I will still never forget that newscast, and I think I mentioned this in another thread, but I believe the gentleman they interviewed was weighing his options between working at GE and Taco Bell since they both paid about the same in Fort Worth.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,734,236 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I'm just saying that $18 to $23.50 per hour is a fair wage for manufacturing in Erie. They were overpaid at $10 more per hour than that. GE could have left the country instead of going to Texas. It's illogical to assume it's the next step. There's no reason to wait. I'm glad it stayed in the county. I'm wondering if the Erie workers have the option to take a pay cut and relocate to Texas, at their own expense of course.
exactly. and for the purposes of this thread, the question is why Texas and not PA. It doesn't matter to PA if TX is growing jobs and residents at our expense. furthermore, GE still employs plenty in erie, can those issues be addressed to stem further losses? is it wages, taxes, etc?

clint-and what's wrong with exploiting labor differentials? if $8/hr in mexico is 30% better than the average wage, it isn't like GE is screwing humanity now is it? are people of erie more entitled to good wages than people in mexico by some divine right? I also agree that if mexico was where they wanted to go they would have done it already.

track-well, since that interview is being contradicted here it's hard to say if he was over exaggerating to be on tv or if the differential is underreported.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
2,773 posts, read 3,834,624 times
Reputation: 2066
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
exactly. and for the purposes of this thread, the question is why Texas and not PA. It doesn't matter to PA if TX is growing jobs and residents at our expense. furthermore, GE still employs plenty in erie, can those issues be addressed to stem further losses? is it wages, taxes, etc?

track-well, since that interview is being contradicted here it's hard to say if he was over exaggerating to be on tv or if the differential is underreported.
To address to the issue of why Texas and not PA, I think it is a combination of factors and the community college issue is the biggest issue in my opinion. GE needs workers trained to do a specific job, and community colleges are flexible and adaptable to meet the needs of the local workforce. The taxes and wages are also problematic, but if this is strictly a cost issue why go to Texas, which is even farther from the new GE transportation headquarters in Chicago and the major overseas shipping routes (many of these trains are sold outside the U.S.)? In other words, GE might save on taxes and wages, but they are also increasing transportation and facility costs at the same time.

In terms of the interview I was discussing, I think it would be pretty bad PR on the part of GE if they mentioned a disparity as high as was reported on the local news. It seems they are taking the stance of the Erie workers are overpaid and the Texas workers are still making a great, livable wage, but the union in Erie rejected a similar salary. There may be some media sensationalism as you mentioned and some misinformation for PR purposes, but I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Unless we had inside information, I don't think we could make any definitive claims on this issue.
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