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This whole transportation bill was definitely a factor in our decision not to move to Pennsylvania. It's sick, quite honestly. The bill raises taxes with the promise of improving roads, but there's no guarantee that it will do that. For proof, all you have to do is look at PA's tax-and-spend neighbor to the north, New York. I know of no state in the Northeast that has worse roads than New York (and I've driven through all of the Northeastern states on minor highways and interstates) but yet New York has the highest gas taxes, by far, of all Northeastern states. Actually, New York has the highest percentage tax burden of ALL states and it STILL has terrible roads!
Don't imagine that the same won't happen to Pennsylvania. It'd be worth the extra tax money if PA ended up with the best roads in the region... but it ain't gonna happen. It's just another way that the tax-and-spend socialists can put more nails into the coffin of freedom. The money will be diverted to other things... perhaps welfare and Medicaid, the two expenditures that suck the largest portion of tax money anyway (or will, after this Obummercare law becomes fully implemented).
This whole transportation bill was definitely a factor in our decision not to move to Pennsylvania. It's sick, quite honestly. The bill raises taxes with the promise of improving roads, but there's no guarantee that it will do that. For proof, all you have to do is look at PA's tax-and-spend neighbor to the north, New York. I know of no state in the Northeast that has worse roads than New York (and I've driven through all of the Northeastern states on minor highways and interstates) but yet New York has the highest gas taxes, by far, of all Northeastern states. Actually, New York has the highest percentage tax burden of ALL states and it STILL has terrible roads!
Don't imagine that the same won't happen to Pennsylvania. It'd be worth the extra tax money if PA ended up with the best roads in the region... but it ain't gonna happen. It's just another way that the tax-and-spend socialists can put more nails into the coffin of freedom. The money will be diverted to other things... perhaps welfare and Medicaid, the two expenditures that suck the largest portion of tax money anyway (or will, after this Obummercare law becomes fully implemented).
? On average drivers will pay an extra $2 in gas a week. I don't think this is too much to ask to improve our roads and public transit. If you think this bill will go to welfare and medicaid then no offense but you are truly a nitwit and I'm glad you didn't move to PA. Our state needs less people like you, not more. "More nails in the coffin of freedom" haha.
Haven't moved yet. My wife and I are still living in the motorhome full-time. But we are working on buying a house... and it ain't in Pennsylvania. Heaven only knows if that'll work out.
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Originally Posted by Summersm343
? On average drivers will pay an extra $2 in gas a week. I don't think this is too much to ask to improve our roads and public transit. If you think this bill will go to welfare and medicaid then no offense but you are truly a nitwit and I'm glad you didn't move to PA. Our state needs less people like you, not more. "More nails in the coffin of freedom" haha.
"No offense, but you are truly a nitwit"? Dude, I don't know what to say to you! You sure did give me a laugh. That's like saying "I don't mean to stink up the place, but..." *PFFFBBBBBBBBBT* as you anally expel the by-products of the digestion of your chili with beans.
Anyway, I'm going to pretend that you're more than just tonight's comedy relief and say that, in principle, I agree with you. Two dollars per week per driver is not too much to ask to improve the roads and public transit in Pennsylvania. I know that some of PA's roads are in poor shape as well. However, with PA's taxes already being insanely high, I'm SURE that they could find that money SOMEWHERE ELSE rather than asking PA's taxpayers to bleed a little more for the Constitution State. If there was some sort of guarantee codified into the state constitution that every last penny of this tax increase would go straight to road maintenance and improvement, I'd bet that most PA drivers wouldn't mind too much. Even die-hard conservatives don't mind taxes when they feel that they're getting a spectacular bargain for their money. I really do wonder how PA's drivers feel about this though... $2 per week is $8 or so per month. Okay, most people could afford that. However, those little numbers add up after a while to keep people in PA poor... which ensures that they will keep voting for Democrats. Don't think that this is not part of a greater plan. If high gas taxes equaled good-quality roads, New York State would have the best roads in the Northeast. Yet, New York State has the WORST roads in the Northeast. This means that it is by no means a given that this tax increase will result in better roads for Pennsylvania.
The $2 per week per driver could come OUT FROM the welfare programs that largely subsidize the do-nothings at the expense of the productive. If it doesn't, then essentially the extra tax money being taken from Pennsylvanians is propping up those welfare programs so that they don't get cut in favor of maintaining roads.
I sure can tell you who is going to be mad about this though... owners of gas stations that are within a few miles of either Ohio or New Jersey.
PA's taxes aren't exactly insane, they are among the lowest in the northeast (or did you just mean gas taxes?). NJ gas taxes are kept low with debt which comes of course will have to be paid sooner or later.
Fitch said Act 89 allows the commission to have more financial flexibility in the long term, reducing its $450 million annual funding to the state to $50 million after 2022 instead of 2057
PA's taxes aren't exactly insane, they are among the lowest in the northeast (or did you just mean gas taxes?). NJ gas taxes are kept low with debt which comes of course will have to be paid sooner or later.
To say they're among the lowest in the northeast is like calling someone the best-looking dude in the morgue. However, they're not even the lowest in the Northeast.
Gas tax: NJ wins (but their tolls are terrible... so maybe it's a zero-sum game)
Income tax: PA is the absolute worst for anyone who is not making "really good money" since it is a flat tax rate across all levels of taxable income. The winner is obviously NH, with no income tax.
Property tax: I had to pay ~$900 per year on a house that was worth only ~$30,000. Where else do you have to pay 3% property tax per year? Lowest is DE. PA appears to be in the middle of the pack for the Northeast.
Sales tax: DE and NH win by having no sales tax at all.
PA might do better overall than states like NJ and NY, but all you have to do is look at an average tax burden map to see that PA's tax burden ain't bragging material. States with the highest and lowest tax burdens
However, with this new gas tax increase, I guarantee you that PA will surpass some of the other states that are close by. $2 per week per driver, plus increased fees for other services like registration renewal... it adds up. The tax burden will increase by at least 0.3% for the average taxpayer and then PA's tax burden will be topped only by the tax hells of NJ, NY, CT, RI, WI, and CA. 7th highest tax burden in the country, anyone? As though the weak economy in much of PA wasn't bad enough, now people will have to throw more of their money away to taxes? Money that COULD have been spent in "the economy" but now will be flushed down the toilet of government waste?
I repeat what I said before. They COULD have found the money somewhere else in the income that the state already receives, perhaps by cutting out some WASTE.
To say they're among the lowest in the northeast is like calling someone the best-looking dude in the morgue. However, they're not even the lowest in the Northeast.
things have changed over the years I guess
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Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
Gas tax: NJ wins (but their tolls are terrible... so maybe it's a zero-sum game)
it's about more than just tolls, the low taxes have been propped up by debt. I suppose Pennsylvania's problem is that people only look at direct taxes rather than indirect taxes (the amount of fuel you need, it matters little if you're paying it to the state or to an oil company). PA residents don't drive much which means they need a higher rate if they are going to rely on fuel taxes for transportation funds.
That’s because the $1 billion state fund that pays for transportation upgrades is tapped out, able to pay only the debt it has accrued over the past decade and leaving a transportation system ranked among the worst in the country with little money for repairs and improvement. - See[/quote]Analysis: N.J. gas tax still taboo - NorthJersey.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
Income tax: PA is the absolute worst for anyone who is not making "really good money" since it is a flat tax rate across all levels of taxable income.
no, it's just fine for people making okay money, which is where I fall. remember, PA is a big state unlike DE or NH and your mileage will vary based on where you live. In SEPA you can shop in DE, live in PA, and make above average money for the state. none of that is true of nepa. i thhink it was a mistake by rendell to raise it from 2.93% though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
The winner is obviously NH, with no income tax.
Property tax: I had to pay ~$900 per year on a house that was worth only ~$30,000. Where else do you have to pay 3% property tax per year? Lowest is DE. PA appears to be in the middle of the pack for ...Sales tax: DE and NH win by having no sales tax at all.
PA might do better overall than states like NJ and NY, but all you have to do is look at an average tax burden map to see that PA's tax burden ain't bragging material. States with the highest and lowest tax burdens However, with this new gas tax increase, I guarantee you that PA will surpass some of the other states that are close by. $2 per week per driver, plus increased fees for other services like registration renewal... it adds up. The tax burden will increase by at least 0.3% for the average taxpayer and then PA's tax burden will be topped only by the tax hells of NJ, NY, CT, RI, WI, and CA. 7th highest tax burden in the country, anyone? As though the weak economy in much of PA wasn't bad enough, now people will have to throw more of their money away to taxes? Money that COULD have been spent in "the economy" but now will be flushed down the toilet of government waste?
actually, the weak economy is a big part of PA's ranking since tax burden takes into account income which, given PA''s status as one of the oldest states, is perennially depressed. If job or wage growth weakens, the tax burden goes up (which is what happened in the time period they used for the nation at large and probably PA as well). If you look at actual taxes paid PA is lower than VA but VA has a lower tax burden (whether that is because of something they did or federa government spending in nova or both I can't say). the lowest taxes are in Mississippi but not accounting for income. The question is what are we getting for this new tax? is it worthwhile? is there really that much waste? why not this new tax and eliminate waste at penndot? how much of penndot's problems are a result of spreading themselves too thin and taking the shot term fix increasing long term expenditures?
people often overlook the fact that when gas prices were $1.00 gallon they were paying nearly a third in tax. today that's down to 10%, much of it due to declines in the purchasing power of the dollar. I happen to agree with the commenter in that article that PennDOT needs to maintain what we have before ploughing ahead on capacity projects which may or may not be necessary
This is true. I remember, when I was in college, PA's income tax rate was a flat 2.8%. The way to generate more income tax is to generate more income, but PA decided to raise the rate to its current 3.07%... perhaps in stages. I wasn't paying attention. But I do know that the "local income tax" was a recent phenomenon. I never paid that when I was younger, but then I heard about it later on. So now the effective income tax load in every area of PA save for what I've heard is a select few, is at least 4.07% flat, and possibly higher depending on your town.
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Originally Posted by pman
no, it's just fine for people making okay money, which is where I fall. remember, PA is a big state unlike DE or NH and your mileage will vary based on where you live. In SEPA you can shop in DE, live in PA, and make above average money for the state. none of that is true of nepa. i thhink it was a mistake by rendell to raise it from 2.93% though.
PA's income tax starts getting better than that of neighboring "bracketed rate" states once you start making "good money"... meaning like $50,000/year or more. However, if you're making, for example, $25,000 per year, your state income tax burden is far higher in PA than it would be in any other Northeastern state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman
actually, the weak economy is a big part of PA's ranking since tax burden takes into account income which, given PA''s status as one of the oldest states, is perennially depressed.
They won't improve that by raising taxes. Study after study has shown that every dollar spent by the government has yielded approximately 80 cents of net economic gain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman
how much of penndot's problems are a result of spreading themselves too thin and taking the shot term fix increasing long term expenditures?
Just wanted to add that PA has the 10th highest tax rate, but the difference between states is actually decently low.
-Taxes paid by residents as pct. of income: PA is 10.2%, lowest state (SC) is 8.4%
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