subdivisions in Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Ross Township: buying, school districts, wage)

[anna_b]

Hello,

My name is Anna and I am doing a piece of research on the various subdivisions in some US states. By subdivisions I mean towns and/or townships that are below the county.

What I need to know if people actually recognize these areas and refer to them in their daily business (e.g. when going from a place to another, when referring to they area they live in, when selling/buying a house, when dealing with the local authorities for taxes, and so on).

Or is there any other unit people they refer to when speaking of a certain area (zip codes, landmarks, etc.). Basically, do you recognize townships and know what the townships in your area are? if not, what do you use?

This is a map I made with all the townships in Pennsylvania, just so you understand better what I am referring to: https://www.google.com/fusiontables/...d=S12383059enm

I would appreciate it greatly if you could clear up some of this stuff for me.

Thank you in advance

[SorryIMovedBack]

Local government in Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
^ That's a wiki, but gives an overview. I lived out of PA for most of my adult life, so I really don't know all the nuances of PA's structure.

Growing up in a rural area, people referred to town names if they lived in a town, township names in the rural areas. If a housing development in the rural suburbs had a name, it wasn't all that important. Like, you might say "I live in Rolling Acres" but most listeners would immediately translate that to "I live in __________ Township."

[ki0eh]

I think many townships do have a relatively strong identity among their residents, even when the name does not necessarily correspond to the postal address. Generally in PA the school district boundaries coincide with township lines. Also township government in PA is relatively strong compared to a weaker county system. I suspect the identity is strongest in suburban townships, especially among those that have essentially co-extensive school districts vs. a jointure.

In addition, townships in PA often have a wage tax or an occupation tax (or both), in addition to the property taxes that are often escrowed. So there are two annual reminders to working people of which municipality you live in.

As an example, Susquehanna Township an inner ring suburb in Dauphin County has a Harrisburg postal address and intermixed boundaries with City of Harrisburg, but its own school district - locally no one would say they live in Harrisburg, it would be Susquehanna Township. But adjacent suburban townships Lower Paxton and Swatara are together in Central Dauphin school district with others, these folks seem to say they are in Linglestown, Paxtonia, Rutherford, or Oberlin (or maybe the name of the development) rather than the township names.

Where I grew up in NY State the town identity was fuzzier - county government is relatively stronger there vis a vis town level, and school district boundaries frequently do not follow town lines there creating another level of confusion. Folks there would often not know what town they lived in even on official forms. Generally there are no town wage taxes in NY and the occupation tax is unknown. So if property taxes are escrowed, many people often don't have an interaction with town government as such in NY.

In the truly rural areas of PA I think the township identity might become fuzzier again - where there are several townships in one school, no eponymous post office, maybe a joint building or septic permit service, and where the demand for local government services is so thin that there might be half-day-a-week office hours - or not even that, at least one place it seems they don't even open the mail between the monthly board meetings.

An anecdote: I had to file an environmental permit for a facility in a rural township. The PA DEP requires proof of notification to be submitted with the permit application. After a week or so I tried to call the township office, the phone number was disconnected. After a couple of weeks of waiting for the green card to come back one morning I mentioned the reason for the delay in submitting to a fellow at the facility. He said: "Oh, the township secretary works here, I'll say something to her." About two hours later I had a scanned e-mail of the certified mail notification receipt - note that it's probably a 30 minute drive one way from that facility to the PO with the box the township uses.

[eschaton]

Although townships are technically unincorporated in Pennsylvania, practically speaking they seem to function pretty similarly to New England towns (which are incorporated) and nothing at all like the "paper townships" common in Midwestern states. All of them have some level of self government (although the rural ones usually don't have as much), you cannot have part of a township within a city or borough, etc.

As others said, however, it is a bit complicated because zip codes in Pennsylvania do not align with municipalities, and often have names which aren't actually part of any local government. In both Philly (King of Prussia) and Pittsburgh (Wexford) you end up with places identified by zip codes but which otherwise don't exist. That said, I'm not sure if people from those places actually use the zip code identifiers, so much as others within the metro who don't know the area as well.

[toobusytoday]

Around here we call towns by their names. We might say, I'm going down to visit a friend near such and such a town, but every place has a name and most towns were settled hundreds of years ago, they aren't really "subdivisions". While I live in a township outside of the town borough, I would never refer to myself as living in a certain township except for maybe around election times, when that matters more.

[PAhippo]

That map is awesome.

I've lived in NEPA over 30 yrs. Bradford, Tioga, Susquehanna, and Wyoming Counties. Unless someone actually lives in a town borough (meaning the actual town) I find most people, when asked, refer to hills or lakes.

'I live on Warren Hill' or 'I live over by Lake Carey'. If they're really a long term resident: 'I live just past the Wickhammer farm.'

[ki0eh]

I think the OP meant "subdivisions" in the Census usage of "county subdivisions" or official units less extensive than a county (which often seem referred to collectively in PA as "municipalities") - not individual land developments.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by anna_b

What I need to know if people actually recognize these areas and refer to them in their daily business (e.g. when going from a place to another, when referring to they area they live in, when selling/buying a house, when dealing with the local authorities for taxes, and so on).

Or is there any other unit people they refer to when speaking of a certain area (zip codes, landmarks, etc.). Basically, do you recognize townships and know what the townships in your area are? if not, what do you use?

Yes. We're very aware of the boundaries of townships and mailing addresses and how they overlap. And don't forget that the school districts' boarders are sometimes entirely different from the townships and zip codes. We refer to them interchangeably depending on the conversation. We even get more specific with local names for areas within these areas.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by eschaton

That said, I'm not sure if people from those places actually use the zip code identifiers, so much as others within the metro who don't know the area as well.

Some people identify more with their zip code, especially if it spans two different economic areas. A person living in a poorer township might say they live in the zip code because the zip code includes a wealthier area. Alternately there are areas that identify more with the township because the zip code comprises poorer areas. Many non-city areas with Pittsburgh zip codes distinguish themselves from living in the city by specifying their township. Then there are others who identify more with their school district than their township. North Hills is a good example because many people living in Ross Township say they live in North Hills and most never say Pittsburgh even though that's their mailing address unless they're talking to someone from outside of the region. Everyone interchanges all three things for a variety of reasons and it has little to do with not being familiar with the areas.

[anna_b]

Thank you all for your answers. I do indeed refer to townships as subdivision due to the name used by Census, which is "County Subdivisions". It's been quite illuminating and complicated at the same time. It will just make my research "stuffier" .