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View Poll Results: Would You Vote in Favor of a Proposed Constitutional Amendment to Ban Same-Sex Marriages and Civil U
I would vote in favor of the amendment as is being proposed. 19 22.89%
I would vote in favor of the amendment, but only for banning same-sex "marriage." 8 9.64%
I would not vote in favor of the amendment no matter how it is being proposed. 52 62.65%
I'm not sure. 3 3.61%
Other (Please Specify Your Views Below) 1 1.20%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-30-2008, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
19 posts, read 58,200 times
Reputation: 16

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I'm straight, not narrow. Not only would I vote against such an amendment, I find it to be a moral imperative to oppose it at every level. A basic concept in Judaism is "Tikkun Olam", or literally, "Heal the world." This requires that that I oppose all injustices. Attempting to impose misguided religious-right "morals" on someone because of who they love is wrong. This is discrimination at the most basic level.

I am proud to say that the Rabbi at my temple not only does not support politicians who advocate this kind of thinking, but he also stands against their policies publicly. I am glad to see that Rabbi Swartz is equally vocal. It is forward thinking individuals like the Rabbis that can help to educate the public and stop this kind of misguided behavior from becoming law, unchallenged.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:00 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 2,907,270 times
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I have only waded through the first three pages of the thread but I would like to see civil unions become legal and supported in PA. I'm gay but I don't necessarily see the big deal about gay folks getting the title "marriage" if the civil unions are basically the same thing with the same rights. I'm willing to compromise on the wording to get the equality (some may argue that it's not equal because both aren't considered marriages but I see it as semantics).

As for religion and homsexulality, God made gay folks the way they are. It's coming closer and closer that science is finding that we are born this way. The proof is pretty close to being found and I imagine it will in the next year or two. God makes all of us and I don't see how there are so many people that just "choose" the lifestyle. Why would I choose a lifestyle that includes such hatred, bigotry, pain, and suffering due to people not willing to be open to our preferences. Just like straight people never chose to be straight I never chose to be gay. I was gay from since I can remember.

I find it funny that people use the bible to strike down homosexuality. I'm a religious person myself but understand that man may have changed things thorughout the early days of history when it comes to the bible (humans have always taken liberties with things for their own agendas and it could have happened back in time). Plus it's all about interpretation. God is about love and compassion but sadly a good deal of religious people seem to place this aside to attack what they personally feel is wrong. It's also funny that only certain things are followed and others are not (examples being that the bible calls for the stoning of your children if they talk back to you, slavery, not wearing clothes of two different fibers, not planting two different crops in the same field, not eating shellfish, not working on Sundays, etc.). I get sad at the picking choosing that goes on. Here's an interesting website on the subject which will make you think about certain issues: Evil Bible Home Page

Sadly gay folks are going through the same struggles that women and other minorities/racial groups have suffered through in the past. You'd think we would learn from the past but sadly the human race is slow to pick up on these things. I'm very comfortable in knowing God made me the way I am and live my life trying to treat everyone around me with respect and not hurting others, not stealing, not committing crimes, not being hateful, not being abusive to others, etc.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,268,091 times
Reputation: 19071
I still have yet to receive an honest answer from a Republican as to how marriage can be a "religious" or even "Christian" institution if Atheists are permitted to wed in county courthouses? I can get drunk, scream "F*ck God" and then run into a county courthouse to wed an opposite-sex partner if I so chose, yet I can't believe in Christ and wed a same-sex partner? Isn't that being hypocritcal? How do right-wingers justify being "okay" with non-believers engaging into their supposed "Christian" institution while being vehemently opposed to extending that same privilege to same-sex Christian couples?
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:53 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 2,907,270 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
I still have yet to receive an honest answer from a Republican as to how marriage can be a "religious" or even "Christian" institution if Atheists are permitted to wed in county courthouses? I can get drunk, scream "F*ck God" and then run into a county courthouse to wed an opposite-sex partner if I so chose, yet I can't believe in Christ and wed a same-sex partner? Isn't that being hypocritcal? How do right-wingers justify being "okay" with non-believers engaging into their supposed "Christian" institution while being vehemently opposed to extending that same privilege to same-sex Christian couples?
Funny how the church is against two men or two women getting married but they will allow people to get divorced and then remarried again in church (something the bible is clearly against.....adultery). I know I stated that I'm fine with the civil union tag but ultimately it wouldn't hurt to allow us the same term marriage. With all of the cheating, divorcing, child abuse/neglect, etc. that goes on in straight marriage I highly doubt two same sex partners will tarnish the sacred term "marriage" any more than what has already been done.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:48 PM
 
Location: South Central PA
1,565 posts, read 4,295,780 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
I still have yet to receive an honest answer from a Republican as to how marriage can be a "religious" or even "Christian" institution if Atheists are permitted to wed in county courthouses? I can get drunk, scream "F*ck God" and then run into a county courthouse to wed an opposite-sex partner if I so chose, yet I can't believe in Christ and wed a same-sex partner? Isn't that being hypocritcal? How do right-wingers justify being "okay" with non-believers engaging into their supposed "Christian" institution while being vehemently opposed to extending that same privilege to same-sex Christian couples?
Being generally conservative (nowadays, I think that's diffrent than being a republican), I don't think the government should have the right to give out marriges. It should recognize them, but it should not give them. IMO, the government should only give out civil unions.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:11 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 5,428,476 times
Reputation: 1204
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
I still have yet to receive an honest answer from a Republican as to how marriage can be a "religious" or even "Christian" institution if Atheists are permitted to wed in county courthouses? I can get drunk, scream "F*ck God" and then run into a county courthouse to wed an opposite-sex partner if I so chose, yet I can't believe in Christ and wed a same-sex partner? Isn't that being hypocritcal? How do right-wingers justify being "okay" with non-believers engaging into their supposed "Christian" institution while being vehemently opposed to extending that same privilege to same-sex Christian couples?
You won't get a sensible answer on this. When I've asked the same question in the past, the answer I got was that "God blesses ALL marriages as long as it's between a man & a woman".

Then when I ask "well then how about when 2 Shintos get married in their Temple, or 2 Hindus get married in their Temple, etc." since their religion does not follow the bible? I got the same answer even though according to the bible these people are considered "heathens"...go figure.

These right-wing types are the first in line to say that "God is perfect & does NOT make mistakes". Well then, God creates gay people so He must know what He's doing then!!!

Then they will say that we "chose" to be gay. Well, if they can tell us the date & time that they "chose" to be straight, I'll believe them.

Personally, I would never think that I know what God's plans are or what He thinks as, in my eyes, this would be blasphemous & arrogant & putting myself on His level. I've also always had a problem with being "led" by a priest or preacher as they also are sinners (with the usual human frailties, phobias & insecurities) & can "interpret" their own agendas into any "holy book".

In my opinion, the law should state that marriage/civil union is "contract between two non-related consenting adults". Period. The equal benefits we are after are "legal" & not "religious", so I also believe church should be kept out of secular government.

Just my opinion.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:49 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 5,428,476 times
Reputation: 1204
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. MacReady View Post
I'm very comfortable in knowing God made me the way I am and live my life trying to treat everyone around me with respect and not hurting others, not stealing, not committing crimes, not being hateful, not being abusive to others, etc.
That's a wonderful outlook!!

Imagine if everyone did the same?? (brings to mind Louis Armstrong's song "What A Wonderful World"...)

I do the same & follow the 10 Commandments (which, to me, are the backbone for decent living). When I read the bible, there were so many inconsistancies & hypocrasies it didn't make "sense" to me. But, it is a great tool to learning the "meaning" of being a Christian as opposed to taking it "verbatim".
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:43 PM
 
Location: near Mansfield, PA
75 posts, read 407,005 times
Reputation: 39
I would hate to see PA pass one of those amendments. It's shameful for any legislation to advocate discrimination.

My thought...the government should be entirely out of the marriage business and there should only be civil unions, leave marriages to the religious organizations, which in turn can decide who they will and will not marry.

I am very suspect of creating a two-tiered marriage system of "marriage" vs. "civil union"...we dont have a great record in this country when it comes to "separate but equal."

From what I know, marriage has yet to implode because of permitting same-sex couples to get married in Spain, Canada, Belgium, The Netherlands, Massachusetts, or South Africa.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Scranton
2,940 posts, read 3,933,078 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. MacReady View Post
Funny how the church is against two men or two women getting married but they will allow people to get divorced and then remarried again in church (something the bible is clearly against.....adultery)..
Depends on what kind of church you're talking about there. The Catholic Church does not permit divorced people to remarry in the Church.
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,246 posts, read 10,493,980 times
Reputation: 8758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad2002 View Post
I would hate to see PA pass one of those amendments. It's shameful for any legislation to advocate discrimination.

My thought...the government should be entirely out of the marriage business and there should only be civil unions, leave marriages to the religious organizations, which in turn can decide who they will and will not marry.

I am very suspect of creating a two-tiered marriage system of "marriage" vs. "civil union"...we dont have a great record in this country when it comes to "separate but equal."
Excellent points. I agree completely. Segregated but "equal" education was a huge disgrace to this country -- so what leads people to believe it would work with marriage? To me, what this comes down to is conservative evangelicals and the like simply trying to prove a point about something that doesn't affect them whatsoever. We have a war raging on, an economy that appears to be weakening, and a slew of other issues on the table. Why such an amendment would take precedence over other issues pertinent to everyone in this country is not only frustrating; it doesn't make sense.
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