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View Poll Results: Would You Vote in Favor of a Proposed Constitutional Amendment to Ban Same-Sex Marriages and Civil U
I would vote in favor of the amendment as is being proposed. 19 22.89%
I would vote in favor of the amendment, but only for banning same-sex "marriage." 8 9.64%
I would not vote in favor of the amendment no matter how it is being proposed. 52 62.65%
I'm not sure. 3 3.61%
Other (Please Specify Your Views Below) 1 1.20%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-15-2008, 05:48 PM
 
393 posts, read 1,523,656 times
Reputation: 198

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Quote:
We have a war raging on, an economy that appears to be weakening, and a slew of other issues on the table.
Not to mention the country being invaded by third world intruders who are bringing disease , overcrowding the schools and hospitals whilst turning neighborhoods into crime ridden filthy barrios.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:32 AM
 
17 posts, read 47,158 times
Reputation: 22
Default My take.

I have not seen any compelling evidence that this phenomena is anything other than learned behavior and/or choice. Why would someone choose a life that would bring on such persecution, being made to feel like your the only one that views thing a certain way? Heheh. Funny someone asked that question.... I ask myself that question many times, when I am scoffed at, ridiculed, and made to feel like I am simple minded. All because of the fact that I believe the word of God is just that, Gods revelation through man. Why would I choose to take such a path? One because of personal experience with Jesus Christ as my savior, 2. having taken the time to study a fair amount of theology, as well as reading the Bible, I have a solid understanding of how the Bible came to be, what the criticisms are (and their debunkings), and how to interpret scripture as a scholar. Still learning as it encompasses a HUGE amount of information and structure. 3. I have never liked things the easy way, and to mean becoming a moral relativist and a religious pluralist, is nothing more than a cop out for those than are too lazy to really know what they believe and why. I have come to this conclusion by the responses I get from "Christians" who are obviously embracing the "New age" church. The responses are usually very wishy washy, ask a lot of questions, and then make some statement of what "They" think about the Bible or God without any theological, archaeological, or historical data to back it up. Its just an easy scapegoat for them to not have to "feel" bad about other peoples choices, in my opinion. If you are not a Christian, then none of my posts were directed at you.

Why does a man choose to have an affair and potentially lose his family? Why does someone chose anything, good or bad? Honestly, I cant believe this question was even asked in light of....reality. Because man has a corrupt heart and is in the flesh while on earth. We can either resist or embrace what Christians refer to as the flesh. My freind who is not a Christian has an interesting take on homosexuality. He absolutely wants it to be scientifically proven without a doubt that it is genetic. He wants people to stop encouraging gays to just not, and marry the opposite sex? In fact, he did a paper on it in school. His basic reasoning is, if being gay is genetic, its a mutation, from simply a reproductive standpoint, and he would like to encourage gays to simply fade out of the gene pool. Now, here is my stance, I believe people become gay based from mostly psychological reasons. And no, I don't take this from the fact the APA classified homosexuality as a mental disorder, or at least used to. I take it from looking a vast majority of gay men and women, their upbringing, parental situation with mother and fathers, abuse, etc.... the stats are there but no one seems to want to look at them. And yes, I do hate sin, in any form, I hate it when I sin myself. Jesus told forgave sinners in the new testament and told them to go, and sin no more. So, yes, I hate the sin, not the sinner. I do have a question for all you non-believers our there: What do you do with your guilt? Buy it away, drink it away, drug it way, sex it away, ignore it away? Jesus Christ provided the answer to guilt and a way to stand before the creator, not on your merits, but Christs. After all, being perfect is a tall order, an impossible order; that includes Christians, which is sort of the whole point of Christianity, which most people seem to not know.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:39 AM
 
17 posts, read 47,158 times
Reputation: 22
Default Good point....

Quote:
Originally Posted by susquehannock View Post
Not to mention the country being invaded by third world intruders who are bringing disease , overcrowding the schools and hospitals whilst turning neighborhoods into crime ridden filthy barrios.
Very good point. So what do we do about it, when the whole country seems to think unlimited open borders and immigration is the answer. A country that believes a nanny state is the best way to help widows, children, and the "aliens among us".

I am all for helping people, personally and directly from my pocket, time and resources. I know who I want to help, but I don't think anyone else has the right to force money out of my pocket to pay for things I don't morally or ethically believe in, or distribute it in ways I don't agree with. Not to mention the government takes their huge cut off the top.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:48 PM
 
393 posts, read 1,523,656 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanight View Post
Very good point. So what do we do about it, when the whole country seems to think unlimited open borders and immigration is the answer. A country that believes a nanny state is the best way to help widows, children, and the "aliens among us".

I am all for helping people, personally and directly from my pocket, time and resources. I know who I want to help, but I don't think anyone else has the right to force money out of my pocket to pay for things I don't morally or ethically believe in, or distribute it in ways I don't agree with. Not to mention the government takes their huge cut off the top.
I can certainly agree 100%.
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:53 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 2,906,283 times
Reputation: 813


Comparing being gay to cheating on your spouse is laughable. Being gay is something you are born with. When did straight people choose to be straight? They didn't as I didn't choose to be gay......I was born that way and had an attraction toward the same gender since I was a little kid. There's a ton of abuse that has occurred to straight folks also so I don't buy the theory that was presented that gay people become that way because of their upbringing. Tons of straight folks have been abused or had less than desirable upbringings too.

Ask any reputable scientist about the origins of sexual orientation, and he or she will clearly state that it is NOT a choice. That is a lie promulgated by the fundies. It is necessary that they continue to spread that lie in the face of scientific evidence so that they can keep using the GLBT community as a scare tactic in politics and to justify their smug belief in their moral superiority. I once had guilt about being gay but have found that was brought on by the hateful bible thumpers and not by God.

The bible states that eating shellfish, wearing mixed fibers, working on the sabbath, judging others, hypocrisy and self-righteousness are wrong. It also says that the penalty for working on the sabbath or being insolent to your parents is death. The bible also says it's a sin to plant 2 crops in one field, touch a menstruating woman, make cloth of 2 fibers, etc. Read The Misquoting of Jesus by Ehrman and The God Delusion by Dawkins for more information. It's funny how people can pick and choose what they want to follow from the bible and often use things as a justification for discrimination, bigotry, or hateful actions. No wonder more and more people are getting turned off by orgainized religion.

It's very insulting that being gay was once considered a mental disorder........just shows how hatred of something was out of control. I don't drink, do drugs, or go out have have tons of sex because I'm "hateful" to the fact I'm gay. God made me this way no doubt and he doesn't make mistakes. The bible can be misinterpreted in many ways and the bible thumpers can spin things any way they like. Plus who is to say that man in early times did not change things in the bible for self serving reasons (like man hasn't ever done that).

Perhaps if everybody on earth loved each other for who they are and not look down on them for silly things like being gay it would be a better world. God would certainly not be proud of the Christians who tear down homosexuality and go out of their way to say/do hurtful things toward them.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,602 posts, read 77,235,199 times
Reputation: 19066
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.J. MacReady View Post


Comparing being gay to cheating on your spouse is laughable. Being gay is something you are born with. When did straight people choose to be straight? They didn't as I didn't choose to be gay......I was born that way and had an attraction toward the same gender since I was a little kid. There's a ton of abuse that has occurred to straight folks also so I don't buy the theory that was presented that gay people become that way because of their upbringing. Tons of straight folks have been abused or had less than desirable upbringings too.

Ask any reputable scientist about the origins of sexual orientation, and he or she will clearly state that it is NOT a choice. That is a lie promulgated by the fundies. It is necessary that they continue to spread that lie in the face of scientific evidence so that they can keep using the GLBT community as a scare tactic in politics and to justify their smug belief in their moral superiority. I once had guilt about being gay but have found that was brought on by the hateful bible thumpers and not by God.

The bible states that eating shellfish, wearing mixed fibers, working on the sabbath, judging others, hypocrisy and self-righteousness are wrong. It also says that the penalty for working on the sabbath or being insolent to your parents is death. The bible also says it's a sin to plant 2 crops in one field, touch a menstruating woman, make cloth of 2 fibers, etc. Read The Misquoting of Jesus by Ehrman and The God Delusion by Dawkins for more information. It's funny how people can pick and choose what they want to follow from the bible and often use things as a justification for discrimination, bigotry, or hateful actions. No wonder more and more people are getting turned off by orgainized religion.

It's very insulting that being gay was once considered a mental disorder........just shows how hatred of something was out of control. I don't drink, do drugs, or go out have have tons of sex because I'm "hateful" to the fact I'm gay. God made me this way no doubt and he doesn't make mistakes. The bible can be misinterpreted in many ways and the bible thumpers can spin things any way they like. Plus who is to say that man in early times did not change things in the bible for self serving reasons (like man hasn't ever done that).

Perhaps if everybody on earth loved each other for who they are and not look down on them for silly things like being gay it would be a better world. God would certainly not be proud of the Christians who tear down homosexuality and go out of their way to say/do hurtful things toward them.

You do realize you're talking to Northeastern Pennsylvanians, right? The odds of making any social headway here are about as likely as all of us ever having our meet-and-greet with all of the animosity that has flooded the forum as of late. I've presented all of these very same arguments to folks until I was blue in the face, and I still get people who say "Being gay is a choice." Really? Tell me the exact date and time you arose and said "I'm going to choose to be heterosexual in life." You can't. Why? It's biologically inherent to you. It's growing to the point where I'm realizing I may just have to move to a place where I feel like I belong.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:35 PM
 
1,623 posts, read 6,503,415 times
Reputation: 457
As far as I'm concerned, as long as they agree to pay taxes and be miserable like the rest of us married folks, they can join our club
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:34 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 5,426,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanight View Post
I have not seen any compelling evidence that this phenomena is anything other than learned behavior and/or choice.

Uh....the life stories & word of gay people who tell you that they were "attracted" to the same sex as long as they can remember even going back into childhood isn't "compelling evidence"??



I can remember in GRADE school being "attracted" to other boys as opposed to girls (and I'm NOT saying "sexually" because at that age we have no clue as to sex). EVERY gay person I know has the SAME story to tell. You can't get any more accurate than the "horse's mouth"!!

As I've asked & SWB & R.J have asked "when did you decide to be straight"?

YOU DIDN'T. You just "were" attracted to the opposite sex. It's the SAME with us. It's the way we are...NOT learned & NOT chosen. I don't know why people can't just accept our word for it!!!

That's why I get such a kick out of these people who "KNOW" what makes a gay person gay & don't listen to the people IN the situation!!

THAT'S why it's so important to us to have the same legal benefits as a couple as straights do...because we are NO different in ANY way from ANY straight people EXCEPT for who we're attracted to. We pay taxes & work & play & laugh & grieve just like everyone else. To deny these benefits to same-sex couples is discrimination....period.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,925,448 times
Reputation: 9579
SWB wrote:
It's growing to the point where I'm realizing I may just have to move to a place where I feel like I belong.
Perhaps that's the best thing you could do for yourself. Trying to change other people is ALWAYS a losing battle. I'm not defending the local anti-gay sentiment, but why should they change? You want to be accepted for who you are, so begin by accepting the close minded idiots for who thay are. I'm not talking about mere tolerance, but complete acceptance. They are who they are, so let them be and give up on trying to change them. Their lack of acceptance is their problem ... not yours. Let it go, save your energy and live in a place where the acceptance of gays is already part of the local culture. I think you'll be much happier. If not happier, at least your life will be less stressful.
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