Stunning proof of the demise of manufacturing in Pennsylvania

[DrOctagon]

Take a ride through North Philly then talk about how hard de-industrialization hit PA.

[pman]

Arguably no state was hit harder than pennsylvania. Contrary to popular perception the loss of manufacturing hit the mid atlantic hardest.

And yes north philly, pittsburgh were a huge part of that. Of course coal was in decline well before 1954 as the country shifted to oil...but coal still fed a lot of mid atlantic production.

[HappyRider]

Just up the road was this site. Not sure if it too was abandoned or still working. It was a Saturday.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by HappyRider

Just up the road was this site. Not sure if it too was abandoned or still working. It was a Saturday.

Off hand I'd have to say there is probably about 20 breakers still around.

Here's a large one in the Wyoming Valley, Hudson Anthracite. It was originally built to reclaim the banks that surrounded it. Once that ran out they converted it to a regular breaker and bring raw coal in for processing.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hu...f0d17dcd1741b4

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by pman

Of course coal was in decline well before 1954 as the country shifted to oil...but coal still fed a lot of mid atlantic production.

There is really two tales to be told here because we have two types of coal. The anthracite deposits in the northeast are some of the best in the world and there is not very many of them. As far as coal goes it's rare.


It's expensive though, as a consumer you might be able to purchase soft coal from the source for $60 ton. Anthracite is going to cost you $180. It's not as suitable for industrial use other than for coking. Also the cost to mine it wich is much more than soft coal and the primary use is home heating which leaves a small market for it. This document is no longer available:

Pennsylvania has long been a major source of coal,
leading the Nation in coal production until the early
1950's and ranking among the top coal producers since World War II.
Cumulative production is more than 15 billion short*
tons, an amount far exceeding that from any other State.
In 1992, coal was Pennsylvania's most valuable mineral
resource, the value of production representing an
estimated 60 percent of the total value of all mineral
commodities produced.


.................................

The development of canals, railroads, and river transportation
opened up markets for both bituminous coal
and anthracite. In 1918, output was a record 277 million
short tons, a level unequalled by any other State.**

..................................


First Year of Documented Coal Production
Anthracite . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1820 (458 short tons).
Bituminous . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1840 (465,000 short tons)
Peak Year of Coal Production
Total . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1918 (277,377,000 short tons).
Anthracite . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1917 (99,612,000 short tons).
Bituminous . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1918 (178,551,000 short tons)

Current production for bituminous is about 40 million tons. Anthracite is hovering somewhere around 3 million tons. It's big difference.

*To put this into perspective at the current usage that would be enough to power the US for 15 years.

**This document was dated and that was superseded by coal production in Wyoming a few years back

[HappyRider]

This may sound silly but can you use anthracite for backyard grills and barbecues? Is it safe? How long does the fire last?

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by HappyRider

This may sound silly but can you use anthracite for backyard grills and barbecues? Is it safe? How long does the fire last?

No you can't use it for barbecue, beside there not being the right equipment it's not going to be very tasty unless you have the fire separated from the cooking environment. Coal fired pizza is a big thing and it's a big thing because of the really high temperatures needed for a real brick oven.

As far as safety goes I would argue it's the safest fuel you can use. It doesn't explode, it doesn't leak, it doesn't short out and it's not going to catch your chimney on fire. You an store it indefinitely anywhere. If you had a house fire they are going to find a pile of coal in the rubble. The only real safety concern is CO gas which is common to any heating application that burns something but it's of particular concern with coal because it creates fly ash when it's burning. If you don't clean it out then it will eventually block the flue, that's how people die with coal. It's not an overnight condition, how often you have to clean this ash out depends but most people can go the season. It could be anything from every couple of months to something like my boiler that could go for 2 or 3 years but I don't let it go that long.

How long it burns depends on the unit and your personal choices. For a hand fired stove most people get on 12 hour schedule. Coal is very controllable by setting the amount of air, you fill a coal stove to the max. The burn rate is controlled by the air. . Most people using smaller hand fired stoves set the air so it's a 12 hour schedule of loading it in the morning and the evening. You can get some to go as much as 40 hours but you're not going to be getting a lot of heat either.

Automatic stokers are only limited by the amount of coal and how much ash they can hold. Every 2 days in the dead of winter....

Keep in mind there is every imaginable application for heating available. Small hand fired stoves, inserts, hot air stokers, boilers and even ornate refurbished antique stoves if you want to go nuts. I know what most people think when they hear about heating with coal but the reality is much different than what they imagine.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQT6CVC2sOc

[Clark Park]

Another silly question:

If I had a furnace in my basement that is fueled by heating oil, can it be converted to anthracite? The house is heated by forced hot air that enters the room through ornamental grilles near the baseboards (the house is a Victorian 1890's brick house) You mentioned that some homes are already heated by anthracite ... do they have a special type of furnace?

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by Clark Park

Another silly question:

If I had a furnace in my basement that is fueled by heating oil, can it be converted to anthracite?

Honestly the question isn't can coal work in any situation but what do you want it to do? There is option for everything and in your case enough to make your head spin. It depends on what your priorities are and your particular circumstances becsue there will be something to fit your needs. For example if you have a working oil furnace that is fairly new and have the room for another furnace no reason getting rid of it because you can hook them up in tandem. That doesn't mean that oil furnace ever has to come on but it's nice to have it as backup or for use if you need to take off in the middle of winter for a week.

This would be hot air furnace, you can do it in tandem or by itself. Its fully automated and the only difference between it and your oil is you need to put coal in one end and take ashes out of the other. Another minor difference is it will always be putting some heat into the duct work but it will ramp up or down as needed. They come in 110BTU and 220 BTU models.

Leisure Line Coal Stoves - Automatic Coal Stoker Stove Home Heating Systems





As another example since it's such an old house your ducting is probably set up for gravity feed. At one point you probably had hot air coal furnace, they look like giant upside down octopus with ducts going off in every direction. They probably had to make accommodation for the oil so it won't work as well but you can set up hand fired unit to provide constant heat. Let the oil take up the slack and/or distribute with the fan. The bonus here is you lose electric you still have heat. They are a lot more work than automatic stoker.



This is really something you need to research, figure out what your budget is and what your priorities. Then find what is going to work for you becsue just about anything you can imagine there is an option. Just as one more example suppose what you really want is baseboard or in floor radiant heating eventually. That's an expensive proposition but you can do it in chunks, buy a boiler and use a heat exchanger for the ducting for a few years. You can add zones over many years eventually eliminating the ducts.


FYI I do need to mention one other thing, any product you see me mention is not only made in the US but it's made in Pennsylvania which the exception of Hitzer which is in Indiana and Chubby in Mass. Here's the short list.

Clark Park, Keystoker and EFM are just up the road from you.

Leisure Line Coal Stoves - Automatic Coal Stoker Stove Home Heating Systems
EFM Coal Stoker Boiler
Keystoker
AHS Coal Stoker Boilers
Axeman-Anderson - Anthratube Coal Boiler
Alaska Stove | Gas Wood Pellet Coal Stoves Furnaces | Bloomsburg PA
Harman Legacy Stoves - Home
Reading Stove

Coal stove manufacturer
Hitzer Stoves