If Wolf is elected, will marijuana laws in PA ease?

[sicksburgh]

Originally Posted by Beaconowner

This could be you...



John Hirko
21 years old
Pennsylvania
1997
An unarmed man with no prior offenses was shot to death in his house by a squad of masked police. In a no-knock raid, they tossed a smoke grenade in through a window, setting the house on fire. Hirko, suspected of dealing small amounts of marijuana, was found face down on his stairway, shot in the back while fleeing the burning building. When the fire was finally put out, officers found some marijuana seeds in a plastic bag. The Town of Bethlehem settled the resulting lawsuit for $7 million+ and an agreement to reform police department procedures and training.

That happened in 1997. I hate to break it to you, but we now live in a world where camping in the woods or driving 1/4 mile after a cop puts his lights on behind you (so that you can pull safely off the road) is enough to get you shot. If the same thing happened to me for smoking weed, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Sure I'd be dead, but at least my family would be millionaires as a result.

[JettaPA]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The idea that there is a huge pot of gold at the end of the legalized marijuana rainbow is an erroneous one.

If pot is legalized, it should be done on its own merits, not on the myth that taxes on grass will somehow balance the state budget.

Marijuana isn't difficult to grow, any college student can do it.

If high taxes are levied on the product, the black market will flourish with untaxed grass. The taxes will be reduced, and the government will spend a load of money trying to enforce the new pot tax, reducing the flow of tax dollars even further.

Marijuana should be legal because in a free society, you shouldn't be restricted on what you can put into your own body, not because it might be some revenue source for the government. How can a plant that grows naturally in the earth be illegal?

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Your trying to get me to change my mind - like I have not given this subject a lot of consideration.

I pointed out some of what I feel are problems with legalization. I also have other problems with it. There will never be any agreement with our government what percentage (concentration) of THC is too much to work or legally drive. You also state to treat it like alcohol - well tell me; what is too much? As we approach your legalization and more people seem to think it is fine to use and drive; I see worse drivers on our roads.

I really don't hold it against anybody for grabbing your stash and using away from others. But, you get on my roads or at my work place; and then we have problems. There is no simple answer to how long one should wait before driving or working. Users will say just a short time or no time at all and our government will say hours or days - get a consensus and then come back and argue.

Wrong, I am presenting a facts that counter your ridiculous fears so that undecided people who read this thread can see both sides of the sanity spectrum and make an educated decision for themselves.

What is too much? That's what the studies are for, as I already pointed out. So what if you see worse drivers on the road, are you pulling them over and testing them?! If not then what does this have to do with the topic?

"If you get on my roads or workplace drunk, then we have problems." Well, it looks like we already have a way to deal with that, don't we? So stop thinking with a "can't do" attitude and you will see that this much less intoxicating substance will be easily solved as well.

[sicksburgh]

Originally Posted by JettaPA

Marijuana should be legal because in a free society, you shouldn't be restricted on what you can put into your own body, not because it might be some revenue source for the government. How can a plant that grows naturally in the earth be illegal?

EXACTLY! America: Where gerbiling is legal, but don't dare put weed into your system!

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by airwave09

Wrong, I am presenting a facts that counter your ridiculous fears so that undecided people who read this thread can see both sides of the sanity spectrum and make an educated decision for themselves.

What is too much? That's what the studies are for, as I already pointed out. So what if you see worse drivers on the road, are you pulling them over and testing them?! If not then what does this have to do with the topic?

"If you get on my roads or workplace drunk, then we have problems." Well, it looks like we already have a way to deal with that, don't we? So stop thinking with a "can't do" attitude and you will see that this much less intoxicating substance will be easily solved as well.

There is still some that claim your statistics are not accurate. Time will tell. If you have lived as long as I have; you have had to have known users that dropped out from society. Of course you can say that we have alcoholics that have also dropped and have the same problems.

Within the last two years I have gone to the funerals of both a brother-in-law and a good friend's son - both in their fifties. Both were heavy pot users and both heavy drinkers. I know that you will claim that the pot had nothing to do with their deaths. But, I feel, it is that lifestyle. I have just seen too many that have dropped out of living and die. My wife's best friend's brother smoked pot and drank. He hit and killed another motorist. He did sever two years in jail - which is nothing compared to the half a life time that he took away from another motorist.

I know that this is a battle that I will loose. Of course I am great at picking loosing politicians. It is just hard to change my mind without sitting in my shoes. I would rather error on the side of caution; than to make a mistake.

PS Please do not insert words into the middle of quotes - "drunk" is not what I said; that is your word. If you want a clarification - just ask. I would have been happy to insert "under the influence" (of drugs or alcohol).

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by fisheye

There is still some that claim your statistics are not accurate. Time will tell. If you have lived as long as I have; you have had to have known users that dropped out from society. Of course you can say that we have alcoholics that have also dropped and have the same problems.

Within the last two years I have gone to the funerals of both a brother-in-law and a good friend's son - both in their fifties. Both were heavy pot users and both heavy drinkers. I know that you will claim that the pot had nothing to do with their deaths. But, I feel, it is that lifestyle. I have just seen too many that have dropped out of living and die. My wife's best friend's brother smoked pot and drank. He hit and killed another motorist. He did sever two years in jail - which is nothing compared to the half a life time that he took away from another motorist.

I know that this is a battle that I will loose. Of course I am great at picking loosing politicians. It is just hard to change my mind without sitting in my shoes. I would rather error on the side of caution; than to make a mistake.

You can find people off of the street that will believe anything, the real question is what makes their opinions credible?

You need to stop associating the consequences of drinking alcohol with that of pot. They are no where close to being the same. This is spreading misinformation and doesn't do anyone a bit of good. I don't care if you think it is a part of "that lifestyle" this is just an opinion and NOT a fact.

Here's another example: "I heard that serial killers like to chew gum, it must be a part of that lifestyle and should be banned." Can you now see the ridiculous logical fallacies in your arguments?

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by airwave09

You can find people off of the street that will believe anything, the real question is what makes their opinions credible?

You need to stop associating the consequences of drinking alcohol with that of pot. They are no where close to being the same. This is spreading misinformation and doesn't do anyone a bit of good. I don't care if you think it is a part of "that lifestyle" this is just an opinion and NOT a fact.

Here's another example: "I heard that serial killers like to chew gum, it must be a part of that lifestyle and should be banned." Can you now see the ridiculous logical fallacies in your arguments?

Like I said before: You have your opinion and I have mine. You will unlikely and get your wish. That does not mean that all of us have to agree. If we all thought the same; there would be no reason for half of us to live. I am 68 and am pulling from my lifetime experiences. I believe in a better society and not one that escapes reality. I don't drink and I don't smoke. I also don't personally care what you do - as long as it doesn't affect me, my family, friends or work. I just don't see how legalization can achieve those goals.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Like I said before: You have your opinion and I have mine. You will unlikely and get your wish. That does not mean that all of us have to agree. If we all thought the same; there would be no reason for half of us to live. I am 68 and am pulling from my lifetime experiences. I believe in a better society and not one that escapes reality. I don't drink and I don't smoke. I also don't personally care what you do - as long as it doesn't affect me, my family, friends or work. I just don't see how legalization can achieve those goals.

Legalization achieves a lot of important goals. Let me go over some of them for you:


1) Removes the #1 source of income for both inner city gangs and Mexican drug cartels.

2) Frees up tons of money in the prison system by not incarcerating non-violent drug offenders.

3) Stops innocent people from having arrest records over a small stash or a few plants.

4) Gives people back their freedom of choice as laid out in the Bill of Rights.

5) Allows a plant with numerous proven medicinal benefits to be used to actually help sick people.


There are many others that you can find just by doing a little online research. Oh and these are FACTS, not opinions. They WILL happen if there is legalization on the federal level.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by airwave09

Legalization achieves a lot of important goals. Let me go over some of them for you:


1) Removes the #1 source of income for both inner city gangs and Mexican drug cartels.

2) Frees up tons of money in the prison system by not incarcerating non-violent drug offenders.

3) Stops innocent people from having arrest records over a small stash or a few plants.

4) Gives people back their freedom of choice as laid out in the Bill of Rights.

5) Allows a plant with numerous proven medicinal benefits to be used to actually help sick people.


There are many others that you can find just by doing a little online research. Oh and these are FACTS, not opinions. They WILL happen if there is legalization on the federal level.

I get your message: I have to think like you or I am stupid. My life experiences don't count. It really makes me want to jump on your bandwagon (not). I have no idea who you are? You could have a vested interest in legalization? But, regardless, people are allowed to disagree - it's in the Bill of Rights.

[toobusytoday]

So much for this being a PA topic......