The PA Coal Region in great decline any thoughts? (Pittsburgh: low income, section 8)

[thepatruth]

I grew up in the Pennsylvania Coal Region which is considered Northumberland,Carbon And Schuylkill Counties along with the Greater Hazleton/Wilkes Barre area and This place is going downhill fast. I just hear of Violent Crimes, Drug Arrests and Drug Overdoses everyday, when I visit home it kills me to see my old hometown's current state with the blight and rundown nature it now possesses. The polluted and dank infrastructure is terrible and the only thing that is happening is big businesses and the top politicians are filling their pockets while most other people suffer.

Once proud small cities and boroughs such as Wilkes Barre, Pittston, Shamokin,Sunbury,Frackville, Shenandoah, Ashland, Tamaqua, Pottsville and Hazleton to name a few are impelled with unemployed people with no hope, drug addicts on welfare and illegal immigrants.

There always seems that corruption involved in the coal region small town local government and I do not feel that helps. It was always a tough place to live but it seems now tougher than-ever.

There is hardly any shopping the Malls and downtown's are pretty much vacant, the only thing people seem to care about is high school sports and that simply does not last forever and getting big-time scholarships is harder now than ever for small town Pa players. So people need to direct their efforts to more progressive causes. Such as getting there towns back.

The good hardworking people who worked in manufacturing and the coal industry are either retired or are dying off and the new generation seems largely to depend on welfare and jobs with no future to get by. This is creating tons of volume in the housing market and further blight and decay in the local landscape.

The people here seem to pay high taxes for the services and schools offered. Why do people put up this crap and still live here, the ones that are educated? The only ones who seem who stay are the ones who have teaching or state jobs or just financially cannot get out. State jobs and teaching jobs don't pay as much at entry level as say in the 1980s and 1990s and a lot of those will be cut in the future due to budget constraints. The state and local governments are simply going broke in Pennsylvania.

I hope things change here but from the look of things I do not think from a sociological perspective it is at all possible. As many local educated young people graduate college the next few years more will continue to move to urban areas or other areas of the country with greener pastures and the decline will continue.
Anyone have any thoughts how we can prevent this from happening?

[ki0eh]

Hazleton has significant industrial employment, look at all these companies: CAN DO Park Tenants I hear a lot of these have trouble attracting high skill technical people and engineers.

Housing that people nowadays actually want to live in seems in short supply. Old modest row homes with no parking and no transit to get to work and shopping (meaning longer hours not just the senior citizen bus) is a losing proposition. The cost is low enough that the area is re-peopling with immigrants, as it was ~100 years ago.

Adding frequency, shifts, and days of operation to fixed route bus transit, and making sure they actually go to employment and shopping areas could be the best single public investment. At least that would allow the low cost housing to balance with "jobs with no future" - an improvement over high cost housing and jobs with no present for many in our larger metros.

It is certainly true that those in charge of local governments in PA generally are those who were least likely to travel or to have lived outside the area, who could see bot what the area can offer and understand shortcomings of a hyper-parochial culture. Not easy to transform local government on a more sustainable basis when those who decide have the most vested interest in status quo.

[pman]

Restore the rail connection to nyc.you already have the drugs, time to attract taxpayers

[KevinE]

Originally Posted by thepatruth

Anyone have any thoughts how we can prevent this from happening?

Prevent? no. Escape... yes! That region is too far gone to be salvaged.

[Sicilee]

Which part of the coal region did you grow up in, ThePATruth? And when did you leave? Curious.

I don't have answers. I am not sure the picture is quite as grim as you portray (the state and local govts are not all going broke for example), but certainly every economic downturn seems to take a hard toll on the area. And it has been in economic and social decline for many decades. I will not move back, although I look forward to enjoying my drives there, through the lush green mountains, when I visit the cemetary. There is something about the area that I still find compelling. A nostaligia perhaps, with no basis in the current reality there. But there is something about it that I can't shake. Maybe you too, or you would not have written?

[Bazzwell]

Originally Posted by thepatruth

Anyone have any thoughts how we can prevent this from happening?

Jeez, your description was so close to what our area of Pennsylvania suffered through decades ago that I thought I was reading a history lesson instead of a new posting.

Mining here died out for the most part three or four decades back with just a few areas close to the West Virginia line still cranking it out while they have it. People around here talk about what it was like when the mills went down, that was Pittsburgh, not here. Fayette County was king coal since the turn of the last century, built to serve those mills. It has never been the same around here since the last trainload was mined out. And while there are some good jobs to be found for those willing to work, it isn't anything like it was when I was a kid.

Your towns will never be the same, your people will never be the same. Adjust to that and you might survive. One or two generations of unemployed will bring about the "sit on my hiney because there are no jobs" mindset and the hard working, clean living, peaceful types will be forever trying to dodge them on the path of life.

Downtowns, which were built when the good times rolled, are far too big, too old, too congested, to be of any real use. Some groups will form to try and "save our town" but it won't accomplish much other than maybe a few trees down Main and a new parking lot where the theatre used to be. The only chance an individual town might have is being out of the main loop of activity. Let me 'splain Lucy.....

I've seen it here. One or two areas have survived, not thrived mind you, but survived by being just a few more miles away from a major highway, an easy out, or a captive audience so to speak. Those have a chance. Any place else will probably experience major comedown over the decades.

Truly I feel for you but there is very little that can be done.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by thepatruth

Once proud small cities and boroughs such as Wilkes Barre, Pittston, Shamokin,Sunbury,Frackville, Shenandoah, Ashland, Tamaqua, Pottsville and Hazleton to name a few are impelled with unemployed people with no hope, drug addicts on welfare and illegal immigrants.

I don't think it's quite as bad as you're making it out to be, for example.

National murder rate: About 5
Murder rate in Luzerne County excluding WB and Hazelton: About 2 and mostly domestic.
Murder rate where I live and many communities in Luzerne County: 0 for the last few decades.
Murder rate in WB in 2013 which was exceptionally bad: About 35
Murder rate amongst the black population in WB in 2013: About 200

That 200 is not a typo. The conclusion is don't be black living in a black neighborhood and you should be fine. Statistically you'd probably be safer in Baghdad.

There is hardly any shopping the Malls and downtown's are pretty much vacant,

In WB and Scranton it's the malls killing the downtown to begin with, this has been issue for decades. About twenty years ago they built an arena near the mall and numerous big box stores and national chain restaurants have emerged in addition to the mall. Thjat type of developement in my opinion is not very good for long term growth becsue in the end it's mostly low income jobs and the profits going to a national company. Had they built that arena downtown it would have increased the downtown economy tremendously. Same thing happened in Scranton, you have Montage mountain, baseball stadium, Cinemark and a plethora of shops congregated in that area. You need to make wise decisions and the placement of the arena in WB and the ballpark in Scranton were poor decisions.

There always seems that corruption involved in the coal region small town local government and I do not feel that helps.

As opposed to Philly? The corruption is deep here but there is certainly other places just as bad, that doesn't make it right. I think we are on the right track, the kids for cash scandal set that in motion.

This is creating tons of volume in the housing market and further blight and decay in the local landscape.

This is certainly an issue but the problem in many of these towns is no one wants those homes. You have a plethora of very small homes that might only be 1000 sq ft. or even less which interesting features like having to walk through one bedroom to get to another. They are crammed up against the neighboring homes, no yard, no where to park etc. As the elderly die off they get sold to landlodrds and often go to section 8, the fabric of the community is slowing eroding becsue many of the people moving in are not going to be long term residents. Even lower income people that you want to attract that might be starting families or whatever become reluctant to purchase them. I don't know how you address that, there is no easy solution.

Anyone have any thoughts how we can prevent this from happening?

If the corruption issue is addressed that will go a long way, I often wonder how many companies have walked away from this area because some politician had their hand out. There is lot to offer here including vital transportation links including 81, 80 and the Turnpike(476).

[eschaton]

I think that the coal region could really be brought back if it was marketed to the right group of people.

As I see it, the assets of the region are:

1. Dense, potentially walkable urban environment.
2. Near unspoilt nature.

This juxtaposition - the Philly-like housing density, which quickly falls to wilderness without any intervening suburbs - is the unique feature of this region. People these days want the combination of small-town charm with urban walkable feel. All the infrastructure is there for it. Plenty of quasi-abandoned storefronts and historic rowhouses waiting for refurbishment.

All it needs is to gain interest with the right kind of people. Say a group of a few dozen artists relocate out thataway. Artists frequently relocate to the middle of nowhere, because most don't really make much money, and being in a remote, cheap area allows them to quit their day jobs and concentrate on their work full time. Once you have a few artists, you have a gallery or two open, then a few other interesting businesses, and soon it will develop into a little tourist trap ala Jim Thorpe. Given most of the boroughs are only a 5-15 minute drive from the next borough, it's easy to see how this could spread from one to another, until the whole string of them are revitalized.

[steeps]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I think that the coal region could really be brought back if it was marketed to the right group of people.

As I see it, the assets of the region are:

1. Dense, potentially walkable urban environment.
2. Near unspoilt nature.

This juxtaposition - the Philly-like housing density, which quickly falls to wilderness without any intervening suburbs - is the unique feature of this region. People these days want the combination of small-town charm with urban walkable feel. All the infrastructure is there for it. Plenty of quasi-abandoned storefronts and historic rowhouses waiting for refurbishment.

All it needs is to gain interest with the right kind of people. Say a group of a few dozen artists relocate out thataway. Artists frequently relocate to the middle of nowhere, because most don't really make much money, and being in a remote, cheap area allows them to quit their day jobs and concentrate on their work full time. Once you have a few artists, you have a gallery or two open, then a few other interesting businesses, and soon it will develop into a little tourist trap ala Jim Thorpe. Given most of the boroughs are only a 5-15 minute drive from the next borough, it's easy to see how this could spread from one to another, until the whole string of them are revitalized.

Walkable urban environment? Yeah no mass transit but for senior buses and buses that bus the mentally challenged and Physically handicapped and aged. The coal region has mostly by far wood framed Rows and half-double home varieties. Many in degrees of disrepair. Due to more people locals leaving and passing on.

Those moving in for cheap old stock housing are Poor of Philly and NYC boroughs, and White, Black and Latino. Though some old Coal towns, have become mostly Latino. Few come for Jobs. Most know Welfare is easily available and many are on assistance moving in. Many find the homes on the internet and come for better GANG FREE SCHOOLS for their children.

Schools have increased endowments greatly. When a decade ago, consolidating fairly new schools were considered. Now many are back to 80s levels again. But rest assured.... these new residents are not adding gentrification or restoration of these towns. Many end up as merely transients.

Oh as for unspoiled nature.... some of these towns have creeks that run of acid mine run-off that literally run fluorescent Rust color. But some unspoiled areas between some mountains exist. But far more outside the Coal regions.

Artist might go to the Pocono's... But I surely do not know? Who would buy their Artwork... in such depressed areas? Far from the Big cities.

Do you even realize? Most land is actually owned still by the Coal companies? The homes are kind of like condos with no maintenance fees LOL. You own the Row homes and double homes. And the surface land. But all rights below. Are the Coal companies. Why basically the Coal town of Centralia. That most sold homes to the government. Their land reverted to the Coal barrens. But because some REFUSED TO SELL AND ABANDON. The Coal companies..... can't strip mine the town. But Coal is beneath it.

[eschaton]

I'm not saying the coal boroughs are not without challenges. But fundamentally, they are urban areas in all senses except their remoteness. They are urban in built structure, urban in density, urban in terms of their social problems. Like any solid working-class white neighborhood in an urban area, they cannot be rebuilt to be what they once were. Basically they only have three options.

1. No one new moves in, they become ghost towns and eventually get demolished.
2. Low-income, predominantly black and Latino people move in. Crime rises and school test scores drop, but at least they still have inhabitants.
3. They gentrify.

Again, these are the three choices that a typical city neighborhood has as well. The main difference is the Coal Region is isolated from job centers. Thus they cannot become commuter towns, the way Conshohocken or West Chester have in the Philly area. No one is going to build a college out there, or any major job anchor. That's why I said the arts/tourist angle is the best thing this region can do - smaller out-of-the way towns elsewhere in the country (Moab, UT, Bisbee, AZ, Taos, NM, etc) or Jim Thorpe locally have gone this route. It's not a sure fire thing of course, but it's the best thing which could happen for the region.

I will admit in general frame rowhouses do not age as well as brick, as owners were highly likely to cover them with siding and remove any of the charm they originally had. But they can be restored. Here are some examples of restored wood rowhouses from Pittsburgh.

In the modern era, many artists sell on the internet, so remote locations aren't a big deal. And of course no one would expect to live a car-free life in one of the Coal Region boroughs even if it were totally gentrified. But if the local business districts were filled with activity again, there would be enough commercial activity that you could walk for many of your day-to-day shopping needs. In the modern era, when people say they want "walkability" this is mostly what they mean - outside of NYC and a few other places few people want to use mass transit except to get to work anyway.