What's with all the confederate flags? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: refrigerator, to live, agriculture)

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by Ted Bear

That is sort of hard to do in this situation.

Thanks for your post. In it, you demonstrated that it actually is possible to explore this topic without labeling a group of people with epithets. Congrats (+1)

[convextech]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

What I question is the use of the confederate flag, particularly after we've placed a national flashlight on what that flag communicates to African American citizens. I would think only the most sheltered of individuals would not be sensitized to this. As such, I keep putting myself in the shoes of an African American family who comes to Somerset and see all of this.

Exactly. I am white, and have always viewed the flag as a slap in the face to blacks. These folks who fly the flag know damn well that it is offensive to blacks. They are racists in every sense of the word.

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by JettaPA

Some of it is racial, but I think more of it is the rebellious nature of the flag. People in central PA are largely anti-government, and the flag is a symbol of people rising up to fight against that government.

This person hit the nail on the head; the Whiskey Rebellion of 1791 also took place in Pennsylvania, but somewhat further to the west.

In Northwestern Columbia County, there's a small community known as Jerseytown, founded by a group of German immigrants who came there en masse after landing and "working off" the cost of their passage in New Jersey. I have many ancestors among them; they came here after the failed revolution of 1848, but were motivated at least as much by memories of relatives conscripted into the Napoleonic wars. I probably lost a number of distant uncles and cousins at places like Austerlitz and Jena.

From what I'm given to understand, what prejudice there was against black people in rural areas (the old "don't let the sun set on you here" mentality) derived at least as much from being solicited to join a war which was the cause of militant abolitionists, backed by the developing industrialist system of the day -- not the fight of people trying to build a hardscrabble farm out of what was a wilderness ten years previously.

And for what it's worth, several central Pennsylvania communities, Lewisburg and Mount Union probably being the best known, were stops on the Underground Railroad. The stories are as varied as the individuals behind them. This region is a long way from a hotbed of blatant racism.

The urban Democrat "progressives" and their "hope and change" crusade are viewed by some of us as having a lot in common with the intrusive mentality that many of our ancestors came here to escape. You can probably see as many "Don't tread on me" flags as you do the Confederate "Stars and Bars".

And I don't feel "let down" by a government which is far too powerful; I simply retain a healthy suspicion toward it.

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by convextech

Exactly. I am white, and have always viewed the flag as a slap in the face to blacks. These folks who fly the flag know damn well that it is offensive to blacks. They are racists in every sense of the word.

I agree with this. I doubt that the people that fly this flag are thinking of any nuanced reasons. They're just racists.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

Finally, what I find counter-intuitive is that the prevalence of these flags in the rural north overwhelms that of the south, based on my repeat stays in rural South Carolina. It seems they "get it" better than their counterparts up north.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you that it's a very strange phenomenon. I also agree that very few people are completely unaware of the racial overtones involved with it.

In some ways, it's akin to perhaps to swasikas that appear every now and then (in a school or some other public place). The perpetrators are likely not ignorant of the history and strong anti-semitism associated with the symbol, but nevertheless aren't truly ardent neo-nazis. Above all, they may think it looks "cool."

However, unless we conduct a scientific poll of confederate flag wavers (which, actually, would be quite interesting), it's hard to truly determine why anyone feels compelled to display it, particularly those who have no Southern roots whatsoever.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by JettaPA

Some of it is racial, but I think more of it is the rebellious nature of the flag. People in central PA are largely anti-government, and the flag is a symbol of people rising up to fight against that government.

Rising up to fight against the government for the right to own another human being.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Rising up to fight against the government for the right to own another human being.

Right.

I'm a Philly boy. I can't vouch for the rest of PA. It is an outlier in the Northeast to say the least.

[BajanYankee]

Weren't Western PA's early settlers the same people who also went on to settle Southern Appalachia?

The heavily traveled Great Wagon Road was the primary route for the early settlement of the Southern United States, particularly the "backcountry". Although a wide variety of settlers traveled southward on the road, two dominant cultures emerged. The German Palatines and Scotch-Irish American immigrants arrived in huge numbers because of unendurable conditions in Europe. The Germans (also known as Pennsylvania Dutch) tended to find rich farmland and work it zealously to become stable and prosperous. The other group (known also as Presbyterian or Ulster Scots) tended to be restless, clannish, and fiercely independent; they formed what became known as the Appalachian Culture. Partly because of the language difference, the two groups tended to keep to themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wagon_Road

That probably explains why gun culture is so big in Western Pennsylvania.

Most of the Northeast was settled by Yankees fanning out from the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

ROOTS AND ROUTES

[BajanYankee]

Did anyone ever see this commercial? I wonder if similar commercials are aired in Upstate NY.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76aW2LuQKe8

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Right.

I'm a Philly boy. I can't vouch for the rest of PA. It is an outlier in the Northeast to say the least.

There aren't many in Greater Pittsburgh either, though you'll see slightly more in the latter. Harrisburg, they filter in around the exurbs. There's a surprising number in the Wyoming Valley, which is largely Polish, Irish, and Italian.