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Old 09-06-2016, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Western PA
3,733 posts, read 5,931,605 times
Reputation: 3189

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Interesting thought about re-industrializing Erie. It comes up a lot in eastern and midwestern cities. Like you, I don't think it's going to happen.

Trump was in Pittsburgh a couple months ago and said that he would bring back steel and coal. Reality is that coal employment peaked in the 1920s and steel in the early 1950s. Even if steel and coal were to "come back," their employment levels would be a fraction of what they once were, thanks to technology and automation.

I lived in Erie during college in the 1970s and the biggest change I see unfortunately, is that those middle class jobs in the factories that lined W. 12th Street and the smaller fabricating shops are gone. With them came the chance for someone coming out of high school to start working toward a comfortable life with lifetime employment, benefits, and the chance to advance. I visit often and see so much more poverty, broken families and crime now. It seems that this is the second generation of people who will never be able to count on dependable employment.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:06 AM
 
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
2,773 posts, read 3,832,903 times
Reputation: 2066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Right down the street from Aldi. That should be interesting ...
Yeah I don't see LIDL as a good thing for Erie since it is just another discount store and Erie has plenty of dollar and discount stores already. I think Trader Joes would have been a better fit and it seems that LIDL just wants to be located in the West Erie Plaza because their main competitor ALDI is right down the street on 12th. I was previously optimistic about the West Erie Plaza, but now I am not too sure.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:12 AM
 
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
2,773 posts, read 3,832,903 times
Reputation: 2066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeo View Post
Interesting thought about re-industrializing Erie. It comes up a lot in eastern and midwestern cities. Like you, I don't think it's going to happen.

Trump was in Pittsburgh a couple months ago and said that he would bring back steel and coal. Reality is that coal employment peaked in the 1920s and steel in the early 1950s. Even if steel and coal were to "come back," their employment levels would be a fraction of what they once were, thanks to technology and automation.

I lived in Erie during college in the 1970s and the biggest change I see unfortunately, is that those middle class jobs in the factories that lined W. 12th Street and the smaller fabricating shops are gone. With them came the chance for someone coming out of high school to start working toward a comfortable life with lifetime employment, benefits, and the chance to advance. I visit often and see so much more poverty, broken families and crime now. It seems that this is the second generation of people who will never be able to count on dependable employment.
The Erie employment market has definitely seen better days, but re-industrialization is probably not going to happen. I think manufacturing can still be a big part of the employment sector in Erie, but there should be more of a focus on producing smaller numbers of quality goods rather than mass production because Erie cannot compete with many other markets. For instance, it is nice to see companies like Smith Provision Company and Erie Brewing expanding production and adding jobs. They produce great regional products and can continue to grow and it would be nice to see more companies like these in the future.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Western PA
3,733 posts, read 5,931,605 times
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I agree. The future of manufacturing seems to be in these smaller companies finding a niche for themselves. But in Pennsylvania, Ohio and other traditional manufacturing states, people still think that "manufacturing" means huge factories employing thousands, and that's not going to happen. Those plants are now in other countries and I don't see them coming back.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:01 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 1,106,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar13 View Post
Yeah I don't see LIDL as a good thing for Erie since it is just another discount store and Erie has plenty of dollar and discount stores already. I think Trader Joes would have been a better fit and it seems that LIDL just wants to be located in the West Erie Plaza because their main competitor ALDI is right down the street on 12th. I was previously optimistic about the West Erie Plaza, but now I am not too sure.

What's wrong with discount grocery stores? We have those stores on almost every corner, from at least 5 different chains. I shop in those stores almost everyday. Makes food pretty affordable and every chain offers different food specialties.
The Lidl stores in the U.S. will be about double the size of an Aldi store. And they look pretty nice in my opinion. They will offer many food specialties from Europe. Lidl seems to be somewhat like a combination out of Aldi and Trader Joe's.
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Old 09-06-2016, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,986,083 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeo View Post

I lived in Erie during college in the 1970s and the biggest change I see unfortunately, is that those middle class jobs in the factories that lined W. 12th Street and the smaller fabricating shops are gone. With them came the chance for someone coming out of high school to start working toward a comfortable life with lifetime employment, benefits, and the chance to advance. I visit often and see so much more poverty, broken families and crime now. It seems that this is the second generation of people who will never be able to count on dependable employment.
It's not that simple, though. Part of what you're seeing in urban in decline is directly the result of the increase in suburban sprawl (and people moving out of the city core) since the 1970s. I don't believe that a city can support middle class suburban sprawl if there are no decent jobs around. That said, everyone knows Erie's economy isn't the greatest, and it is a shame about what happened to all of those industrial jobs!
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:24 AM
 
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
2,773 posts, read 3,832,903 times
Reputation: 2066
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukas1973 View Post
What's wrong with discount grocery stores? We have those stores on almost every corner, from at least 5 different chains. I shop in those stores almost everyday. Makes food pretty affordable and every chain offers different food specialties.
The Lidl stores in the U.S. will be about double the size of an Aldi store. And they look pretty nice in my opinion. They will offer many food specialties from Europe. Lidl seems to be somewhat like a combination out of Aldi and Trader Joe's.
Nothing is wrong with discount grocery/packaged food stores, but Erie already has too many of them. There is already a Save-A-Lot across the street from the West Erie Plaza and an Aldi a few blocks down the street on 12th St. There is also a Dollar General and Family Dollar on both sides of the West Erie Plaza and a Big Lots next to the Save-A-Lot. Of course this is just the list of stores directly surrounding the West Erie Plaza and the Erie metro has many other discount grocery stores. Additionally, LIDL is well known in Europe for not treating employees very well and unlike Trader Joe's will not bring good jobs to Erie. LIDL is not a combination of Trader Joe's and Aldi and is more similar to a combination of Wal Mart and Aldi. As a final point, the 16505 zip code where the West Erie plaza is located, is one of the wealthiest areas in Erie county and the proliferation of discount stores does not match the demographics of the immediate area. I believe this is why the Valu-King/Good Cents discount food stores struggled in the same location where the LIDL is scheduled to be built. It seems that LIDL just wants to be located as close as possible to their main competitor, Aldi, and the West Erie Plaza is happy to fill the space.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:22 AM
 
1,364 posts, read 1,106,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackstar13 View Post
Additionally, LIDL is well known in Europe for not treating employees very well and unlike Trader Joe's will not bring good jobs to Erie. LIDL is not a combination of Trader Joe's and Aldi and is more similar to a combination of Wal Mart and Aldi. As a final point, the 16505 zip code where the West Erie plaza is located, is one of the wealthiest areas in Erie county and the proliferation of discount stores does not match the demographics of the immediate area. I believe this is why the Valu-King/Good Cents discount food stores struggled in the same location where the LIDL is scheduled to be built. It seems that LIDL just wants to be located as close as possible to their main competitor, Aldi, and the West Erie Plaza is happy to fill the space.

There was a spying scandal back in 2008 (Lidl monitored its employees in some stores). Since then a lot has changed. Lidl pays the second highest wages in the grocery retail industry. Lidl is of course not comparable to Walmart, absurd. You shouldn't believe everything you find on the internet.
I guess you haven't shopped in a Lidl store recently. They offer a wide range of interesting food specialities from many different countries. The stores are in my opinion a lot nicer than Aldi stores.
Wealthier people aren't dumb. There is no reason why those people shouldn't shop at Aldi or Lidl. Lidl has already picked locations in fairly affluent places.
Lidl is just locking for locations with a lot of traffic, no matter whether there is an Aldi store nearby or not.

So far Lidl hasn't announced many stores for Western Pennsylvania, also no location for a needed distribution center in this part of the state. I guess it could take some time until they will open this store in Erie.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:48 AM
 
Location: The Flagship City and Vacation in the Paris of Appalachia
2,773 posts, read 3,832,903 times
Reputation: 2066
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukas1973 View Post
There was a spying scandal back in 2008 (Lidl monitored its employees in some stores). Since then a lot has changed. Lidl pays the second highest wages in the grocery retail industry. Lidl is of course not comparable to Walmart, absurd. You shouldn't believe everything you find on the internet.
I guess you haven't shopped in a Lidl store recently. They offer a wide range of interesting food specialities from many different countries. The stores are in my opinion a lot nicer than Aldi stores.
Wealthier people aren't dumb. There is no reason why those people shouldn't shop at Aldi or Lidl. Lidl has already picked locations in fairly affluent places.
Lidl is just locking for locations with a lot of traffic, no matter whether there is an Aldi store nearby or not.

So far Lidl hasn't announced many stores for Western Pennsylvania, also no location for a needed distribution center in this part of the state. I guess it could take some time until they will open this store in Erie.
Do you work for LIDL? I have been to LIDL stores in Europe and the comparison to WalMart is actually very good, especially when it comes working condition issues. There have been many allegations of unpaid overtime, union busting, discrimination, etc.The best way to think of LIDL is it is like ALDI, but has more name brands rather than private label. From my experience shopping at both European Aldi and LIDL stores, the Aldi employees seemed generally happier and the LIDL employees seem stressed. I will admit I have not traveled to Europe in a few years, but unless there have been some drastic changes since 2013 LIDL is definitely the WalMart of Europe. Lidl's slogan is "Where Quality is Cheaper," and this is eerily similar to the recent WalMart slogans of "Always Low Prices" or "Save Money. Live Better."
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Old 09-07-2016, 03:31 PM
 
661 posts, read 516,623 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeo View Post
Interesting thought about re-industrializing Erie. It comes up a lot in eastern and midwestern cities. Like you, I don't think it's going to happen.

Trump was in Pittsburgh a couple months ago and said that he would bring back steel and coal. Reality is that coal employment peaked in the 1920s and steel in the early 1950s. Even if steel and coal were to "come back," their employment levels would be a fraction of what they once were, thanks to technology and automation.

I lived in Erie during college in the 1970s and the biggest change I see unfortunately, is that those middle class jobs in the factories that lined W. 12th Street and the smaller fabricating shops are gone. With them came the chance for someone coming out of high school to start working toward a comfortable life with lifetime employment, benefits, and the chance to advance. I visit often and see so much more poverty, broken families and crime now. It seems that this is the second generation of people who will never be able to count on dependable employment.
Yeah, but think of this question too: If many jobs came back to Erie (even industrial jobs) or any similar job markets, but paid lower wages than they once did, would you rather work at McDonald's flipping burgers, or would you want to do something more interesting for the same wages?
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