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Old 05-14-2019, 05:45 AM
 
27,852 posts, read 28,355,385 times
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Hi Dave, thanks for the info......

Listen, I've lived in PA almost all of my life, was born here...but traveled quit a bit during my life....
Traveled across country, to Texas, OK, MS, MD, VA, WV, KY, TX, FL, NC, SC, GA, and I promise you, all those roads were much better....the moment I returned to PA, it was a joke, Well, we know we're back in PA....
Literally I don't care about all the other states, how many roads they have to repair, compared to ours....it has always been a joke that PA has the worst roads....

Now mind you when traveling, I was always on interstates, until I arrived at my destinations, then a lot of rural street roads were traveled, in each of those states and I found them to be so much better than ours.

Out west I was amazed at the road over road over road structures, which really functioned...which is something PA needs to consider....especially in big cities like Philly. Also, opening trains in the local areas on the East Coast would be so much help....from the Poconos, to NYC, to Philadelphia.

Again, the issue isn't about other states, the issue is about here in PA, ever time I travel around Souderton, Telford, Quakertown, Landsdale, Perkasie, Hatfield, Montgomeryville, Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton....and Philly, the roads are deplorable...just last night coming from Souderton on 113 into Telford, well, ya just got to shake your head...unbelievable, and if you like I'll stop and take pictures, but I think your people have been there, b/c they have in fact at least patched, but the road is so badly tore up, it needs to be dug up, not milled, but dug up and repaired...which is what is happening all over the area.....

When they were installing Rt. 309 bypass, I was riding my horses on the stone grade, (didn't know it then, but I bet those workers could have killed me) lol, as it was a great graded area to open up the horses to a full gallop. It is deplorable now...

Again, what I'm saying is, the State lied to us, as always, every time they tell us they are imposing more taxes on our gasoline, for road and bridge repair, it is allocated to other areas, as it always is....which speaks volumns about how depressed the area is....it is allocated towards new roads and the state is unable to take care of the existing roads it already has in need of repair.

I tell you this, you know somethings up when a woman writes that they were seriously considering moving to PA, until they drove around and saw how deplorable the roads are...and how the trees are just left go, to grow wild....which makes for a whole lot of power outages, and money in the long run....

You can show me all the statistics you want....but we're not talking about other states...we're talking about PA....

and it's been this way ever since I was little....I remember grown ups talking about how bad our area roads were...always....

There was a tiny bridge, down off of Rt. 309 Hatfield area....they were repairing that bridge, all summer and winter....????? I know b/c every Friday, I drove past the construction site, and was detoured. That job could have been completed in one summer....My Gosh, we dug up Rt. 80 and 380 and repaired the road and re-concreted the two Interstates, including bridge repair, in one whole summer, using a Gomaco, machine to finish the concrete work and installed manholes and new pipe for water runoff along the roads...MY Gosh, I helped build 3 sections of Route I-78....so I know what I'm talking about....to some degree....

I don't know who the company was that that bridge was subcontracted out to, but they had the road blocked off, un-necessarily for weeks....and no one was working there, so I finally called the department and complained about it, and within one week, the equipment was moved and the road was opened up.

That my friend was a disgrace....where were the Penn Dot Inspectors....

We were working on a road on Rt. 145 up north...and I had to opportunity then, and I'm talking 1993, 1994? Not sure of the date, but we had some really nice inspectors, who I had the opportunity to chat with...and they told me then, how bad the roads were. I was also told just within the past 5 years that there are bridges down in Philly that have holes in them that you can look right down into the underpass. ???????

I mean what the heck, and your allocating money to build more new roads, when the existing roads are in dire need of repair, not to mention, cleaning out manholes, and run offs....that are always so clogged...?

Our traffic lights are in dire need of repair....

and we need to stop raising speed limits....

There was a local road, about a year ago, reported on FB, and how bad it was, so I went for a ride, to see, and it was insane, holes all over the place...there was no way you could swerve, or drive in the middle or the oncoming lane, and I mean pot holes, that literally ate up the road. Penn Dot should be ashamed. Seriously, and if those local people were on this forum, they would tell you....

I'm sorry you don't agree....but PA had better do something and show some better road repair for our money, before they start building other roads....like I said, the politicians lied to us, and when you write them about it, you get some generic letter that says nothing from them. They simply do not care....

I wonder what Mayor Kinney did to get Penn Dot to approve building all those new roads around Philly?
Channel 6 Action News just showed some pot holes in the roads on TV, and yeah, they come along and fill them, but they don't get repaired, and that fill gets blown out the moment trucks drive over them....or the fill sinks....no milling, no digging them up, just fill?????? So they simply repair the pot holes, but there is no permanent fix.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:57 AM
 
27,852 posts, read 28,355,385 times
Reputation: 17730
Oh, and Dave, one more thing,
When ever Penn Dot posts on FB, you should read the complaints about shoddy road repair, from Locals....
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
12,196 posts, read 6,766,597 times
Reputation: 8809
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I wonder what Mayor Kinney did to get Penn Dot to approve building all those new roads around Philly?
Building all what new roads?

The one big construction project I see is a reconstruction of I-95 between Center City and Cottman Avenue.

The only other one was the now-completed construction of ramps connecting the Turnpike WB to 95 SB and 95 NB to the Turnpike EB. This was an entirely justified and justifiable project, as it closed the one remaining gap in the East Coast's main Interstate route.

What are these other "new roads" you speak of? He's stepped up repaving of city streets, but that's only partly a PennDOT responsibility.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:48 AM
 
2,217 posts, read 1,815,412 times
Reputation: 1909
Let's face it though... the issues with the roads are aggravated by two things... the weather and sprawl.

Of course there is nothing to be done about the weather.

But as far as sprawl is concerned... it either needs to be contained, or taxes need to be raised to generate the funds necessary to repair those roads. I would like to see those taxes directed at the communities that depend on those roads. Let them carry more of the weight. There just aren't enough large cities in the state with large tax bases to carry the rural areas, let alone the exurban ones.

It seems to me that most of the in-migration in PA is happening in and around cities. Perhaps that's for the best. We need to direct scarce funds for infrastructure improvements toward the areas with the densest population, and so serve the most Pennsylvanians possible with those resources.

If the rural areas are becoming depopulated... so be it.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:58 AM
 
27,852 posts, read 28,355,385 times
Reputation: 17730
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Building all what new roads?

The one big construction project I see is a reconstruction of I-95 between Center City and Cottman Avenue.

The only other one was the now-completed construction of ramps connecting the Turnpike WB to 95 SB and 95 NB to the Turnpike EB. This was an entirely justified and justifiable project, as it closed the one remaining gap in the East Coast's main Interstate route.

What are these other "new roads" you speak of? He's stepped up repaving of city streets, but that's only partly a PennDOT responsibility.
I saw them advertised on Facebook....they had an outside meeting and proceed to tell people what new roads they were planning on starting....people were leaving comments about, "Lets, fix the roads we already have....!!!" and really angry about these new roads....and they were stating the price tags on them.....

I don't care how trivial you try and make it sound....it's millions of our tax dollars to finance these projects...
including the new ramps....so...regardless....

So, please stop, trying to put words in my mouth, I said, new roads....so a ramp is a new road right?

I don't care how justified it is, it's building new roads before we repair the already crumbling roads and bridges we have....when in fact, when they imposed the new gasoline tax, they said, specifically it would be for fixing our already in dire need of repair existing roads.

they lied!!!!!! They never said a word about building new roads....not one word.

Politicians are always ready to spend more money, to appease for votes.....wasting our money....

and that doesn't even begin to cover what I've already complained about....

you know as well as I do what is going to happen....sure, ignore the roads, keep patching them, and they are all going to fall apart...which has already started already, which Action News has already reported on and showed pictures of the pot holes, you cannot avoid them.....

lets discuss that....
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
32,814 posts, read 16,253,697 times
Reputation: 24471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Retired View Post
Do not feel Bad. I have been searching PA for that comfortable destination spot. I think I'm done with PA.
Have not found it yet. Why? The ridiculous School and Village Taxes are the primary reasons. The way they
access home value for property tax is insane. A New home at $500,000 may run you $15,000 and up in total
property taxes where as a 100 year old home purchased for $ 50,000 may run you around $1,300 a year.
Hence the reason why so many neighborhood homes remain depressed. Just fix up the inside of the home and
let the outside remain comatose.The closer to the East Coast the home, the more expensive where the further west
( boonies) and further North ( colder ) might cut you some slack. The State treats the local roads the same way New York
does. Blacktop is ripped up in one day. A period of time follows and then a new blacktop is laid down. Our roads were done
two years ago and look terrible today. New York started off the 2019 year 935 million in the hole and hopefully an emergency
fund set aside will buy us time to figure out how to pay off this bill before we return to the 70's version of a bankrupt city.
A simple semidetached home in Queens runs $700,000 with $5,000 plus in taxes. States that have decided to use our tax
dollars to help the less fortunate by taxing the heck out of the working stiff are now in trouble. The working stiff is leaving
as well. Wish you well.................
Real Estate and Property taxes are a problem in PA, not quite at the level, in general of what they are in NJ, and NY, but they are creeping up there. This is especially true in and around Metro areas. There is tremendous growth in my area, forcing new schools to be built, and therefore they have a great excuse to raise the taxes that fund them. Yet, the tax base is increasing so I don't understand why they have to raise tax rates, and millage each year. The taxes on my home and property have gone up annually way beyond the rate of inflation for the same period.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:01 AM
 
2,649 posts, read 1,117,766 times
Reputation: 6542
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
Hi Dave, thanks for the info......

Listen, I've lived in PA almost all of my life, was born here...but traveled quit a bit during my life....
Traveled across country, to Texas, OK, MS, MD, VA, WV, KY, TX, FL, NC, SC, GA, and I promise you, all those roads were much better....the moment I returned to PA, it was a joke, Well, we know we're back in PA....
Literally I don't care about all the other states, how many roads they have to repair, compared to ours....it has always been a joke that PA has the worst roads....

Now mind you when traveling, I was always on interstates, until I arrived at my destinations, then a lot of rural street roads were traveled, in each of those states and I found them to be so much better than ours.

Out west I was amazed at the road over road over road structures, which really functioned...which is something PA needs to consider....especially in big cities like Philly. Also, opening trains in the local areas on the East Coast would be so much help....from the Poconos, to NYC, to Philadelphia.

Again, the issue isn't about other states, the issue is about here in PA, ever time I travel around Souderton, Telford, Quakertown, Landsdale, Perkasie, Hatfield, Montgomeryville, Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton....and Philly, the roads are deplorable...just last night coming from Souderton on 113 into Telford, well, ya just got to shake your head...unbelievable, and if you like I'll stop and take pictures, but I think your people have been there, b/c they have in fact at least patched, but the road is so badly tore up, it needs to be dug up, not milled, but dug up and repaired...which is what is happening all over the area.....

When they were installing Rt. 309 bypass, I was riding my horses on the stone grade, (didn't know it then, but I bet those workers could have killed me) lol, as it was a great graded area to open up the horses to a full gallop. It is deplorable now...

Again, what I'm saying is, the State lied to us, as always, every time they tell us they are imposing more taxes on our gasoline, for road and bridge repair, it is allocated to other areas, as it always is....which speaks volumns about how depressed the area is....it is allocated towards new roads and the state is unable to take care of the existing roads it already has in need of repair.

I tell you this, you know somethings up when a woman writes that they were seriously considering moving to PA, until they drove around and saw how deplorable the roads are...and how the trees are just left go, to grow wild....which makes for a whole lot of power outages, and money in the long run....

You can show me all the statistics you want....but we're not talking about other states...we're talking about PA....

and it's been this way ever since I was little....I remember grown ups talking about how bad our area roads were...always....

There was a tiny bridge, down off of Rt. 309 Hatfield area....they were repairing that bridge, all summer and winter....????? I know b/c every Friday, I drove past the construction site, and was detoured. That job could have been completed in one summer....My Gosh, we dug up Rt. 80 and 380 and repaired the road and re-concreted the two Interstates, including bridge repair, in one whole summer, using a Gomaco, machine to finish the concrete work and installed manholes and new pipe for water runoff along the roads...MY Gosh, I helped build 3 sections of Route I-78....so I know what I'm talking about....to some degree....

I don't know who the company was that that bridge was subcontracted out to, but they had the road blocked off, un-necessarily for weeks....and no one was working there, so I finally called the department and complained about it, and within one week, the equipment was moved and the road was opened up.

That my friend was a disgrace....where were the Penn Dot Inspectors....

We were working on a road on Rt. 145 up north...and I had to opportunity then, and I'm talking 1993, 1994? Not sure of the date, but we had some really nice inspectors, who I had the opportunity to chat with...and they told me then, how bad the roads were. I was also told just within the past 5 years that there are bridges down in Philly that have holes in them that you can look right down into the underpass. ???????

I mean what the heck, and your allocating money to build more new roads, when the existing roads are in dire need of repair, not to mention, cleaning out manholes, and run offs....that are always so clogged...?

Our traffic lights are in dire need of repair....

and we need to stop raising speed limits....

There was a local road, about a year ago, reported on FB, and how bad it was, so I went for a ride, to see, and it was insane, holes all over the place...there was no way you could swerve, or drive in the middle or the oncoming lane, and I mean pot holes, that literally ate up the road. Penn Dot should be ashamed. Seriously, and if those local people were on this forum, they would tell you....

I'm sorry you don't agree....but PA had better do something and show some better road repair for our money, before they start building other roads....like I said, the politicians lied to us, and when you write them about it, you get some generic letter that says nothing from them. They simply do not care....

I wonder what Mayor Kinney did to get Penn Dot to approve building all those new roads around Philly?
Channel 6 Action News just showed some pot holes in the roads on TV, and yeah, they come along and fill them, but they don't get repaired, and that fill gets blown out the moment trucks drive over them....or the fill sinks....no milling, no digging them up, just fill?????? So they simply repair the pot holes, but there is no permanent fix.
I believe these are states with non-union work forces. Is the cost of infrastructure improvements equivalent?

I do understand your frustration with the quality of roads and supposedly dedicated sources of taxes being diverted but I don't know that the comparisons with other states are equivalent.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:06 AM
 
27,852 posts, read 28,355,385 times
Reputation: 17730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merge View Post
Let's face it though... the issues with the roads are aggravated by two things... the weather and sprawl.

Of course there is nothing to be done about the weather.

But as far as sprawl is concerned... it either needs to be contained, or taxes need to be raised to generate the funds necessary to repair those roads. I would like to see those taxes directed at the communities that depend on those roads. Let them carry more of the weight. There just aren't enough large cities in the state with large tax bases to carry the rural areas, let alone the exurban ones.

It seems to me that most of the in-migration in PA is happening in and around cities. Perhaps that's for the best. We need to direct scarce funds for infrastructure improvements toward the areas with the densest population, and so serve the most Pennsylvanians possible with those resources.

If the rural areas are becoming depopulated... so be it.
you are absolutely right, but what happens...they impose taxes and it is never spent on what they promised...they sugar coat it, and deceive the voters...they have been imposing a tax on Gasoline for years....and yet, the roads do not get fixed....and the tax was already imposed.....

they are constantly raising taxes or imposing taxes, that gets lost....

McKinney proposed taxing a street in Philadelphia that is traveled a lot, by charging people to drive on that street, and you don't want to hear what I have to say about that....

this is a perfect example of miss-used taxes, otherwise, he wouldn't have even suggested that....they must be struggling for money, what are they doing with all that money?
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:10 AM
 
27,852 posts, read 28,355,385 times
Reputation: 17730
People, do you know when I first, noticed the gasoline proposed taxes by the state?

I was working Heavy and Highway construction, and they proposed that tax for road repair...work was limited, it was difficult finding a job...and I was happy, but, there were no huge repair jobs going.

Now, does anyone care to take a guess of how much money they are making on those taxes. Think about it?
Every time you drive by a gas station, take note of all the people driving and gasing up....and times that by the hike they've once again imposed on gas....

I mean the money they are making must be in the billions....think about it...where is all that money going?
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:17 AM
 
2,651 posts, read 2,286,332 times
Reputation: 5107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merge View Post
But as far as sprawl is concerned... it either needs to be contained, or taxes need to be raised to generate the funds necessary to repair those roads.
Another alternative is for the existing taxes to be used more effectively. No matter how high you raise taxes, if the money is wasted, taxes will always "need" to be higher. And even after they're raised you still won't get the services you were promised you would get if you agreed to higher taxes.

Last edited by jdhpa; 05-14-2019 at 09:36 AM..
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