Pennsylvania Ranked the 41st Best State (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: low income, 2013, home)

[rowhomecity]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Yep--on many metrics (with the notable exceptions of population, economic size, and K-12 education of course), you're absolutely right.

Although it's beginning to become "above average" on metrics like income and educational attainment (not Top 10, but on the threshold of Top 20), with the potential to do even better as younger generations today continue to comprise more and more of the overall population (for example, the 24-35 demographic in PA is 11th or 12th compared to all other states in terms of college degree attainment--that bodes pretty well for the future).

What should be apparent to everyone is how much potential and assets exist. Unfortunately they continue to be all but completely wasted in that black hole colloquially known as Harrisburg.

I agree 100%. In terms of assets, Pennsylvania is a Top 5 state. No doubt about it.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

In the Erie area there are areas only barely outside the city or Millcreek Township that only have DSL or satellite internet.

The issue is population density, that infrastructure is expensive and the cost to run it to semi rural and rural customers is typically not economically feasible.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

The issue is population density, that infrastructure is expensive and the cost to run it to semi rural and rural customers is typically not economically feasible.

How do other states manage? For instance, Missouri, Minnesota, North and South Dakota, Idaho, and Utah are significantly more rural than Pennsylvania yet they all have better internet access for residents. In many ways, Pennsylvania is behind the times and the investments in infrastructure need to start now or we will only be further behind in the future.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...nternet-access

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

How do other states manage? For instance, Missouri, Minnesota, North and South Dakota, Idaho, and Utah are significantly more rural than Pennsylvania yet they all have better internet access for residents. In many ways, Pennsylvania is behind the times and the investments in infrastructure need to start now or we will only be further behind in the future.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...nternet-access

Not to nitpick but South Dakota has less people than Montgomery County, and Montana and Idaho have less than Philadelphia, and the rest have less than the Philadelphia area.

My guess is that the population in those states is more centralized in small pockets, PA has densely and sparely populated areas from one end to the other.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Not to nitpick but South Dakota has less people than Montgomery County, and Montana and Idaho have less than Philadelphia, and the rest have less than the Philadelphia area.

My guess is that the population in those states is more centralized in small pockets, PA has densely and sparely populated areas from one end to the other.

While I see your point, PA has approximately 13 million residents with approximately 8.5 million or 65% of all residents living in either the Pittsburgh or Philadelphia metro areas. Missouri, who was listed as number one on the list for best internet connectivity for residents and most households with access to high speed internet has approximately 6 million residents with 4.8 million or 80% of all residents living in either Kansas City or St. Louis. In other words, Missouri has more of its population concentrated in its two major cities than PA and still manages to provide excellent internet for its rural and semi-rural residents. Why can't PA do the same?

[thecoalman]

I'm not sure how you would fairly compare this. You would first have to define what is rural or semi rural. Then perhaps a comparison of people in those areas per mile of road that have electric? You mentioned Utah for example, you couldn't use population density itself because it's an enormous state with a whole lot of nothing in most areas. Nor sure if you have been there but you can drive for hours and there is literally nothing.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

In other words, Missouri has more of its population concentrated in its two major cities than PA and still manages to provide excellent internet for its rural and semi-rural residents. Why can't PA do the same?

Is their rural and semi rural population spread out over the entire state or is it more likely to be concentrated in smaller towns? You can get broadband access at this small dirt road becsue you have about 50 houses close together. Any of the side roads the houses might be as much as 1/2 a mile spaced apart and unlikely to have access to broadband.




https://goo.gl/maps/ajwa34h67TxHnFZb8


While on the topic 5G should improve this substantially in time.

[g500]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

While I see your point, PA has approximately 13 million residents with approximately 8.5 million or 65% of all residents living in either the Pittsburgh or Philadelphia metro areas.

Technically incorrect. The PA portion of the Philadelphia metro is just over 4 million, while Pittsburgh is entirely contained in PA at 2.3 million. Total Pennsylvania population of those two metros is over 6.3 million, or about 50% of PA's population.

Philadelphia metro area has over 2 million+ in other states (New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland). I think Philadelphia is the only metro area (and urban area) in the US that includes counties or areas in 4 different states, correct me if I'm wrong.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by g500

Technically incorrect. The PA portion of the Philadelphia metro is just over 4 million, while Pittsburgh is entirely contained in PA at 2.3 million. Total Pennsylvania population of those two metros is over 6.3 million, or about 50% of PA's population.

Philadelphia metro area has over 2 million+ in other states (New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland). I think Philadelphia is the only metro area (and urban area) in the US that includes counties or areas in 4 different states, correct me if I'm wrong.

I should have posted references in the first post you are referring to and here are the numbers and citations I used for my calculations. The US Census most recent estimates have the PA population at 12,807,060 and I just rounded up to 13,000,000 assuming some additional population increases by the 2020 census and to make the math a little easier. I used 2,333,367 for the Pittsburgh MSA and 6,096,120 for the Philadelphia MSA. I rounded up to 8.5 million combining the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia MSAs and I appreciate your correction as I forgot how much of the Philadelphia MSA includes surrounding areas in other states. Your updated numbers demonstrate that PA is about 50% of the population in the larger cities (Pittsburgh and Philadelphia) and the other 50% of the population is spread out between the smaller cities and rural areas.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/PA
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...pa-metro-area/
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...md-metro-area/

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I'm not sure how you would fairly compare this. You would first have to define what is rural or semi rural. Then perhaps a comparison of people in those areas per mile of road that have electric? You mentioned Utah for example, you couldn't use population density itself because it's an enormous state with a whole lot of nothing in most areas. Nor sure if you have been there but you can drive for hours and there is literally nothing.

While I understand your argument, the post by g500 demonstrates that the PA population is pretty evenly spread out between larger cities, smaller cities and rural areas. It would seem to me that it would be harder to build internet infrastructure in states with a clear divide between rural and major cities like Missouri and Minnesota, yet they are doing a much better job than PA. I think all of us can agree that PA needs to improve various aspects of its infrastructure and internet will be very important going forward.