In Crucial Pennsylvania, Democrats Worry a Fracking Ban Could Sink Them (to rent, houses)

[rowhomecity]

Originally Posted by DreamerD

She's already straying from the left. I was waiting. I knew it was just a matter of time lol; right after she did this, she lost a lot of support.



I'm not familiar with politics in PA. What do most of the residents of the towns/cities fracking would be a thing think of it?

The NYT article that is referenced in the title does an excellent analysis of where Pennsylvania Democrat's stand. Yes Pennsylvania has South East Pennsylvania as its far left hub. But the Lehigh Valley, North East Pennsylvania, Erie and Pittsburgh and the surrounding counties all traditionally have also been Democratic.

They are more blue collar areas, with jobs historically in manufacturing and the energy sector. The consensus is that the energy sector does bring good paying jobs and helps to put people to work in towns that have seen complete economic implosion. Pennsylvania overall is a moderate Democratic state, that is pro energy overall.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

To what extent are farmers being paid to not grow crops and send them to market?

That plays a big part in solar. Those farmers can come out ahead if they rent out part of their acreage to some who puts in solar panels and plants the rest with an unregulated commodity.

I don't think you'll find too many Pennsylvania farmers getting crop subsidies, that's more a Midwestern thing.

As far as leasing land to solar companies for a panel farm that was a big thing down here, almost a Happy Days Are Here Again motif. It hasn't worked out that way. The solar companies want instead to clear cut wood lots rather than use already open fields. Plus, the payback to the farmers doesn't match what they get from their current crops (primarily corn and soybeans).

Following on the fracking idea, I don't know if they're running in Pennsylvania but Bloomberg in his ads here is bragging about shutting down coal mines and banning fracking. That won't play well in PA from anybody. Yes, there will be those who support it but even in the cities there are enough people who understand the part both industries play in the local economy, although there are always some who don't.

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Following on the fracking idea, I don't know if they're running in Pennsylvania but Bloomberg in his ads here is bragging about shutting down coal mines and banning fracking. That won't play well in PA from anybody. Yes, there will be those who support it but even in the cities there are enough people who understand the part both industries play in the local economy, although there are always some who don't.

I'm in the Poconos which is neither a fracking nor coal mining area. But we get TV from Scranton which covers both industries and I have not seen those Bloomberg ads yet. And believe me, I've seen plenty of his ads! I'll bet that plays well in wealthy areas, where plenty of people think food comes from "the store" and oil comes from "the gas station".

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

IMO the Democrats' best chance in 2020 is Bernie, believe it or not, because he's the only current candidate who is genuine. But the Establishment is scared to death of him, and you may see Bloomberg emerge from Milwaukee with the nomination. In other words, the Establishment would rather lose with one of their own than with an insurgent. Biden would have won in 2016 but he is just too frail now. The Establishment knows that Biden just can't make it and shouldn't be running, but they are cynically using him as a bulwark against Bernie.

How does Bernie Sanders win suburban voters who may be socially liberal but more fiscally conservative?

[thedirtypirate]

Bernie Sanders just put a bill forward two days ago in the Senate that would outlaw Fracking nationwide.


https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...acking-by-2025

By Feb. 1, 2021, permits would be revoked for wells where fracking takes place and that are within 2,500 feet of a home, school or other "inhabited structure." The wells would be required to stop operations.
Fracking for oil and natural gas would become illegal "on all onshore and offshore land in the United States" by Jan. 1, 2025.
The legislation follows up on Sanders's campaign promise of a fracking ban if he's elected to the White House. It was introduced the week before Monday's Iowa caucus, which kicks off the 2020 presidential nominating contest.
“Fracking is a danger to our water supply. It’s a danger to the air we breathe, it has resulted in more earthquakes, and it’s highly explosive. To top it all off, it’s contributing to climate change," Sanders said in a statement.

[SteelCityRising]

I'm sorry, but I really think President Trump is going to win PA this year and, ultimately, also secure his re-election. There's just no Democratic candidate (still) that is a shining star that I've seen a majority of Pittsburghers rallying behind.

The media for whatever reason is steering us towards Biden. Meanwhile I have yet to meet a fellow Millennial who is a Biden supporter, and whenever I ask a Biden supporter to sell me on him one of the reasons is usually "he's not Trump". Sorry, but with a lackluster candidate like that it will be a repeat of 2016 with arrogant Clinton supporters telling Bernie Bros "at least she's not Trump". You aren't going to win my vote by saying "he's not good, but he's not as bad as the other guy". Give me reasons to vote FOR your Democratic candidate---not reasons to vote AGAINST the incumbent.

[thedirtypirate]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I'm sorry, but I really think President Trump is going to win PA this year and, ultimately, also secure his re-election. There's just no Democratic candidate (still) that is a shining star that I've seen a majority of Pittsburghers rallying behind.

The media for whatever reason is steering us towards Biden. Meanwhile I have yet to meet a fellow Millennial who is a Biden supporter, and whenever I ask a Biden supporter to sell me on him one of the reasons is usually "he's not Trump". Sorry, but with a lackluster candidate like that it will be a repeat of 2016 with arrogant Clinton supporters telling Bernie Bros "at least she's not Trump". You aren't going to win my vote by saying "he's not good, but he's not as bad as the other guy". Give me reasons to vote FOR your Democratic candidate---not reasons to vote AGAINST the incumbent.

Well in terms of this thread, I don't think Joe Biden has ever suggested a federal ban on fracking. In fact, he specifically said the other day an all out ban is wrong. Biden or Bloomberg would probably best represent the actual interesting of the state; pro-business while keeping a socially liberal mindset (think Tom Wolf-type), but the far left and far right propaganda machines have a foot fold now, so god help us all.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

Well in terms of this thread, I don't think Joe Biden has ever suggested a federal ban on fracking. In fact, he specifically said the other day an all out ban is wrong. Biden or Bloomberg would probably best represent the actual interesting of the state; pro-business while keeping a socially liberal mindset (think Tom Wolf-type), but the far left and far right propaganda machines have a foot fold now, so god help us all.

I mean add me in as a "left-wing propagandist", then, because I think after 4 years of being pulled far to the right we need 4 years of being pulled far to the left to help redirect. A moderate isn't going to do anything to undo 4 years of shifting to the right.

In any event I'm not anti-fracking. As much as I like the idea of charging my cell phone using electricity sourced from a wind turbine or a solar farm (regardless of the cost to me) I just know that we STILL NEED fossil fuels. No, they're not sexy. Yes, their extraction process is terrible for the environment. I'm also not willing to give up charging my smartphone. Ergo, we need fracking (at least in the short-term) until we can shift more efficiently to green energy.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

The media for whatever reason is steering us towards Biden. Meanwhile I have yet to meet a fellow Millennial who is a Biden supporter, and whenever I ask a Biden supporter to sell me on him one of the reasons is usually "he's not Trump". Sorry, but with a lackluster candidate like that it will be a repeat of 2016 with arrogant Clinton supporters telling Bernie Bros "at least she's not Trump". You aren't going to win my vote by saying "he's not good, but he's not as bad as the other guy". Give me reasons to vote FOR your Democratic candidate---not reasons to vote AGAINST the incumbent.

Don't you feel like a key distinction between Clinton and Biden is that the latter is a White male (and also happens to hail from Pennsylvania)?

If we look at the data, turnout in traditional Democratic strongholds in PA was not the reason for Clinton's defeat. Let's look at the total raw vote swing for a few counties. These numbers reflect the Democratic candidate's total vote gain or loss in 2016 relative to 2012.

Lackawanna: -30,178
Luzerne: - 32,215
Monroe: -8,863
Northampton: -11,236
Lehigh: -3,304
Erie: -20,991
Philly: +10,093
Montgomery: +35,693
Bucks: -1,023
Allegheny: +19,290
Westmoreland: -16,804
Delaware: +7,200
Chester: +26,616
Berks: - 17,277

Total votes gained relative to 2012: 98,892
Total votes lost relative to 2012: 141,841

In other words, Clinton did better than Obama did in Philly and its collar counties as well as in Allegheny. The problem was that normally reliable Democratic support in Northeastern and Northwestern PA completely collapsed. Her losses in those areas exceeded her gains in the two large metro areas and that's all she wrote.

I'm not sure how anyone could look at that data and conclude that doubling down on far left policies in pursuit of Millennial votes is a winning strategy. It's bad enough that Democratic support outside of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh has been eroding for some time now (well before Trump). The solution to that isn't running a candidate with policies that will certainly reduce Democratic margins in the Philadelphia suburbs. I can't imagine the typical Bucks County voter (or Montgomery County voter) will be in favor of higher taxes and the elimination of employer-based private insurance.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

Well in terms of this thread, I don't think Joe Biden has ever suggested a federal ban on fracking. In fact, he specifically said the other day an all out ban is wrong. Biden or Bloomberg would probably best represent the actual interesting of the state; pro-business while keeping a socially liberal mindset (think Tom Wolf-type), but the far left and far right propaganda machines have a foot fold now, so god help us all.

I agree with the bolded. This is how Democrats scored a resounding victory in the 2018 midterms. Now the liberal equivalent of the Tea Party is prepared to throw it away.