Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I know all those people aren't perfect, that's for sure, but the evil voters put them in so I'll guess we need to blame the evil majority who elected those people since in your world Democrat is always good, and Republican is always evil!!!
Wow, I am not surprised this thread has gone so off-the-rails since you joined in, but dang! I will say wanderer, this little snip it is quite ironic to me. You regurgitated the big lie on this thread. You have basically said "F you representative democracy! F you voters! " to my family, friends, and me who all voted for Biden here in Pennsylvania. Our votes matter. Don't behave as if you have some moral high ground on the issue of democratic (small d) integrity.
You obviously didn't read my entire post or comprehend it since I addressed how 77,745 votes in three states would have changed the electoral votes to elect Clinton in 2016.
You also didn't comprehend that I'm a Republican and in my world Democrat is not always good and Republican is currently really bad.
And I just told told you that you're going by if, not what happened, but if!!! The 77,745 votes never came Hillary's way, and that's that! And even though Trump lost in 2020 if you want to pine over that, it wasn't the end of Trumpism, only the beginning. Trumpism will survive long enough after DJT passes away the way Reaganism lasted when RWR passed away in 2004.
Your ire against Trump won't stop roads, streets, parks, libraries, schools, airports, buildings, and even statues from being named in his honor the way Reagan is honored today. And you being a Republican isn't going to make your points even more valid. We're living in the now, not in the past and Reaganism was a different animal than Trumpism and right now, Reaganism is practically extinct while Trumpism is the dominant animal in the Republican ecology. Get over it, IDIOT!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
tl;dr: "My mind's made up, don't cloud the issue with the facts."
(emphasis added)
There you go again, writing in the conditional past perfect tense when the election hasn't even happened yet. You've got it all figured out in your head, and evidence that doesn't fit your meta-narrative gets discarded or handwaved away.
That was in reference to if Philadelphia had 44% of PA's population and if that was the case, then Philadelphia would have a population of 5,721,188, and since Philadelphia is predominately Democratic, then that would mean that the PA Democrats would've had control much more easily in the state house and the state senate, PA would've been more more liberal in the same vein as NY and MA, and it would be much easier for the democratic candidate to win the PA governorship and the Republicans wouldn't pursue PA as heavily as they're doing this election cycle.
But Philadelphia only has a population of 1.6 million people and only makes up 12% of PA's population. Philadelphia is the largest city, but it's not the most dominant political force in it's own state the way NYC is for NYS, Boston is for MA, Chicago is for IL, and the coastal cities of CA (SF, LA, and SD) the dominant forces in CA. Once again, that was my response as to what Shapiro and Fetterman have to face in PA and PA is the purplest state in the Union right now IMO, not a true blue, liberal shangri-la like NY, MA, IL, and especially CA!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
If Bucks and Chester remain blue in both of this fall's marquee statewide contests, I assure you they will remain blue if Trump is the 2024 nominee. The Republicans in those counties are by and large neither MAGAnauts nor election deniers. I offer NewtownBucks as an exhibit in support of my argument.
Both Bucks and Chester remain bellwether counties to this day, especially Bucks. Chester has gotten bluer with each passing election year, and even then, that's not always the case as in 2012, when Obama won Chester back in 2008, but lost it in 2012 by a razor thin 529 votes to Romney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheste...ection_results). Romney didn't even have that great of a campaign and yet, he won Chester and that's because during 2012, the honeymoon with Obama was officially over even though Obama defeated Romney.
And while Romney won Chester, he didn't win Chester because he was such a great candidate, it was because voters in Chester who thought Obama was some moderate felt let down and many Dems didn't show up in 2012 plus Romney is more of a Rockefeller Republican than just a conservative Republican, which is why Romney was able to win MA, a liberal state, twice, and Chester is mainly moderate, not necessarily liberal or conservative, more moderate tilting left.
Bucks County is the one you should be worried if you're running for both governor and senator. Obama won it against Romney in 2012 by 3,942 votes, Trump almost won it by a hair only being 2,699 votes shy of winning Bucks back in 2016 against Hillary, and Biden apparently won it by 4 points (17,345 votes) in 2020. Bucks apparently has voted Democrat in presidential elections longer than Chester since 1992 while Chester has recently started voting Democrat in 2008, and continued to do so in 2016 and 2020, with 2012 being the only aberration.
If Bucks and Chester remain blue in 2024, then that's because more liberal minded folks, especially housewives are moving from Philadelphia to the suburbs and changing the voting patterns of those counties. If the economy is number one and America right now has an awful economy plus a devalued and underperforming dollar, then expect the GOP to take advantage of that and allocate votes from most of their loyal base as well as affected Dems (Trumpocrats as I'd like to call them) and independents who feel that the Dems aren't doing anything in the executive and legislative branches of our fair government.
The choice of "threats of democracy" is just too damn vague to be a serious issue and it could mean anything from terrorism to lack of sovereignty to an open southern border to restriction of civil and human rights to lack of healthcare. If it's abortion, then that would be a more definite reason, but abortion isn't the number one issue facing Americans and if you combined the economy and quality of life/cost of living, then those two would be well ahead than just "threats of democracy"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
How could the Democrats have bungled reapportionment last year when Republicans control both houses of the General Assembly?
Also: Lehigh County is one-fifth Hispanic and Northampton 14 percent Hispanic. The 14th State Senate District, which you mention below, is 31 percent Hispanic. The 14th District includes all, or almost all, of the city of Allentown (51 percent Hispanic), but Allentown has less than half the number of people needed for a state Senate district, so it needs to take in additional territory, most of which is north of almost-next-door and smaller Bethlehem (52 percent Hispanic) in Northampton County. Basically, the only way you could get a majority-Hispanic State Senate district in the Lehigh Valley would be to put both of these cities in the same district and add another 30,000 or so residents to it, probably from the townships between them plus a little of one or the other's suburbs. And I suspect even that district wouldn't be majority Hispanic because of the demographics of the towns contributing the other 30,000 residents.
If the Democrats wanted a little help, they'd have to rely on the growing Latino population to do so. Most of the Latinos are either Puerto Ricans or Dominicans. Unlike Cubans, both Puerto Ricans and Dominicans don't have to deal with communism, socialism, or Marxism as PR is a commonwealth of the US and DR is an independent country that embraces capitalism and has good relations with the US, and unlike Mexicans/Tejanos in TX, there's the southern border issue plus the cartels and the rampant drug trade and PA is nowhere near the southern border as PA shares a northern maritime border with Canada via Lake Erie, and there's no Canadians sneaking over the border in mass to PA.
All Democrats had to do is to embrace the growing Latino populations in Allentown, Bethlehem, Reading, Lancaster, York, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia and see if Latino majority and Latino plurality house and senate districts can be created. I did my own calculations and found out that PA could support up to 10 Latino majority and plurality districts (2 in the Lehigh Valley, 2 in Berks County, 1 in Lancaster County, and up to 5 in Philadelphia) and up to about 2 Latino majority and plurality senate districts (one in Philadelphia and another one in the Lehigh Valley).
The current 2023 map splits Allentown into half, which splits the Latino community in half since Allentown is a Latino majority city nowadays as per the 2020 US Census (54.2%) and Allentown technically has their first Latino mayor (Tuerk; Cuban mother). Either way, when it comes to state politics, Latinos will have to swallow that same bitter pill that they swallowed back in 2010. There could finally be a Latino state legislator from the Lehigh Valley, but even electing a state legislator wouldn't be enough since according to my calculations, the Lehigh Valley can support up to two Latino majority state house districts, one which could cover half of Allentown, and another which could span along Lehigh and Northampton Counties and cover the southern portions of Allentown and Bethlehem, much of the eastern part of Salisbury Township, and the Borough of Fountain Hill, and possibly adding the Borough of Freemansburg, which has a considerable Latino population living within it's borders (33.5%).
As for the Latino plurality state senate district, since state senate districts are about 260K in population, my calculations concluded that Latinos would make up a plurality of voters at 41% of the district's population, blacks in the district about 8%, and whites would make up about 44%, which means that white voters would make up a much smaller advantage, but it would also mean that minorities would make up the majority of the voting bloc and whoever is the incumbent will not just have to rely on just the white vote to get him or her to the top but that candidate will have to connect with black, Asian, Native American, and especially Latino voters and understand what their political and social issues are and come up with a solution as well as campaign for those particular demographics votes.
My Latino plurality, majority-minority district would've had all of Allentown, the southern and western half of Bethlehem, Freemansburg, Fountain Hill, Salisbury Township, Emmaus, Lower Macungie Township and the boroughs of Alburtis and Macungie, Hanover Township in Lehigh, Catasauqua, Coplay, and portions of Whitehall and South Whitehall Townships. The new district would've had around 260K. Bethlehem would've had to have been split, but there's no perfect map and instead it was the Latino majority city of Allentown rather than Bethlehem.
Either way, the new state senate and state house maps don't give Latinos and political power, and since Latinos vote Democrat than Republican, this is not going to motivate Latino voters to come to the polls in large or significant numbers since there's no candidate that represents their needs and their issues and as for the senatorial and gubernatorial elections, because of the Democrats bungling what should've been an opportunity to gain more state house and state senate districts and if not take control control of both houses, at least soften the blow from the GOP, those are elections are up for grabs and it's a shame that Democrats couldn't even work the down ballot races and it could be disastrous after 2022 for the Dems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
BTW, the 2nd Senate District in Philadelphia, which includes most of Kensington, Feltonville, Crescentville, Frankford and the lower Northeast, is plurality Hispanic (39 percent). The city is 15.1 percent Hispanic, so it looks to me like the map-drawers did manage to get the most heavily Hispanic parts of the city into one Senate district. If you shifted District 1 a bit to the west, put its northern part in District 2, and sliced off the northeast part of District 3 (which would also eliminate its Asian population), you might — might — get a majority-Hispanic district in the city. You'd probably end up making the 4th District, which straddles the Philadelphia-Cheltenham border, plurality Black instead of majority Black in the process.
It could happen, and the 4th state senate district may be plurality black, even if the 4th were changed into a plurality black district. The same could be said for the state house districts in Philadelphia. I've created up to five Latino majority state house districts, three of them new districts and as a result of that would've meant that Kenyatta and Bullock would've been forced to face off in a newly combined black majority district in North Philadelphia, Hohenstein and Dawkins would've had to face off in a newly created black majority spanning from half of Frankford all the way to Olney, and Fiedler and Isaacson would square off in a white majority district along the Delaware River from Fishtown to South Philly. Because of the consolidation of both Delaware River districts, a new district would've been formed to make PA's first Asian plurality district spanning South of Spring Garden and covering Chinatown, parts of Center City, the length of Washington Ave from 13th to 7th St, and a portion of South Philly south of Washington Ave to Oregon Ave between 4th and 8th St.
Concerning the 4th state senate district, I'm thinking it would be in the high 40's as opposed to a drastic drop in it's black population, but since the Latino community lives east of Broad, north of Girard, south of the Blvd, and west of Frankford Ave, as well as adjoining areas such as Port Richmond, Spring Garden, Northern Liberties, and portions of Fishtown, it would've been easier to create a Latino-majority district of 50% - 57% in Philadelphia just to keep Latinos engaged in the political process and have Latino voters participating as long as they have their own candidates to choose from.
That didn't happen, as as result, the Latino community in Philadelphia is still split with three state senators (Tartaglione, Saval, and Street) splitting the Latino community in Kensington and North Philly (https://davesredistricting.org/maps#...e-435a92640426). I can also partly blame the Latino political leaders for this political travesty, too, as they had a chance to gain some political power and have a district to call their own, but there wasn't any urgency on the part of the Philadelphia Latino political class to make that happen and as a result the Latino community is split three ways. I still believe this is wrong and a violation of the 1965 Civil Rights Act, but you can't fight for people who clearly don't want it and while I gave the Latino political class part of the blame, much of this falls on the PA Democratic Party who didn't see what should've been a golden opportunity to seize, even in it didn't result in a complete takeover of the house and senate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
(I don't understand what the 34th Senate District [west shore of the Susquehanna across from Harrisburg, spanning Cumberland and two other counties] has to do with your argument)
That was just one of the two new state senate districts that was retrieved from NW PA which lost a great deal of it's population for the 2020 apportionment and Cumberland County had the fastest growth amongst PA counties at 10.2% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumber...a#Demographics). As a result of the high growth, Cumberland gained a state senate district covering much of it's territory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Boy, that's a stem-winder! "So-called majority"? 50 percent plus one is a majority, whether or not you like it; and even if two points is within the margin of error for opinion surveys, two points does constitute a majority in the only poll that counts. (The margin of error is because opinion polls survey a statistically representative sample of either registered or likely voters.)
Which poll placed Biden above Trump in 2024 and what's the source. there are a lot of polls especially from the senate which have placed a lot of Dem candidates above their Rep competitors, and a lot of them are so favorable to the Dems that I've stopped believing in a lot of the polls. Some races favor dems in the Senate (CT, VT, NY, MD, and CO), but the WI and FL polls are headscratchers that I just can't even subscribe to at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Have you also noticed that (a) China is only engaging in performative saber-rattling over Taiwan, most likely because, like Russia's, its military isn't as strong as its leaders would like it to be (or, in Russia's case, as its leader thought it was) and wouldn't do well in an actual shooting war (b) the price of gasoline is falling?
Biden may not be "the greatest thing since sliced bread," but neither is he the fount of all evil in the world, which your rhetoric here suggests you believe he is.
(A) China is competing with the US military because China wants to be the world's most strongest military and it's playing with Taiwan due to political and socioeconomic reasons. China also knows that since Taiwan is the foremost leader in semiconductors and in total, Taiwan produces about 63% of the world's semiconductors. The next country in line is South Korea at 17%, followed by the good old USA at 7% (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/top...onic%20device.).
Personally I would've preferred it if the US produced much of it's own products but as a result, when it comes to semiconductors, much the world has to rely on Taiwan for semiconductors. Due to the lack of semiconductors, a lot of the motor vehicles haven't been manufactured because of a lack of semiconductors and computer chips, and many cars are still sitting there waiting on semiconductors to be installed.
If China wanted Taiwan, they would take it, and I'm thinking it's going to happen later this year, and once that happens, then it will be the People's Republic of China that will control the market share of semiconductors, not the ROC (Taiwan).
(B) Whether gas slips down to $3.78/gal, the damage has already been done. We're still relying on OPEC for a majority of our petroleum when America could've relied on the Keystone Pipeline and Canada for it's main source. It's ideal that America can replace all it's gas-powered cars with electric, but much of the electricity is generated by diesel, gas turbine, and steam engines, and all three use petroleum, and if that were the case, the cost of electricity and gas would go even higher. Either way, America is to reliant on foreign powers for petroleum and that lies squarely on Biden for closing the Keystone Pipeline because that pipeline represents one of Trump's achievements!
24 years, to be specific — an unusually long span. (Patents and copyrights in this country originally had terms of 17 years, and patents still do, because Jefferson especially believed protections should not encumber the following generation.). You may not "be subject to" what a demographer or sociologist may think, and fwiw, whenever I read things about Baby Boomers, I get the impression that the writer is describing a group of people a few years older than I. But a consensus seems to emerge about when one generation begins and another ends, and some of the markers of the boundaries are cultural. That doesn't mean they're rigid. But it helps satisfy our natural tendency to fit things into boxes.
That's what the demographers gave the Greatest Generation - 24 years while the demographers gave Generation X only 15 years. I don't call myself a millennial simply because I wasn't born in the 21st century but the 20th century, and have seen technology from the 80's such as the rotary phone, the analog TV, the Am/FM radio, and 8-bit video games in my childhood until we reached the digital age in my teens. Millennial is a very tough term to embrace especially when reporters back them were calling kids born in the late 80's Generation X because the X was suppose to symbolize the unknown in the fact that society didn't know whether that generation was headed to prosperity or to poverty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
(more snippage)
Biden also carried Dauphin and Erie counties in addition to those three. You are right that Allegheny County and the Southeast aren't enough — if the margins are close in those six counties or if the margins are equally lopsided in the six counties and the T.
The key is turnout and who's going to show up to vote and which demographic. If not enough black voters show up and assuming most of them vote Dem, the Reps have a chance at Erie and maybe flipping back Dauphin, but if the Dems can still motivate voters to vote in high enough voters, the only county I can see being won for Dems is Dauphin, as Erie is teetering back in Rep control and Biden only won Erie by a paltry 1,417 votes over Trump in 2020.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
This, to me, demonstrates that you've become blinded to reality.
None of those people ceased to be conservatives because they disapproved of Donald Trump. Sheesh, Cheney voted for the Trump agenda 95 percent of the time. What you write about her is the writing of someone who's joined a personality cult, not someone with an actual political philosophy (and FWIW, Trumpism is as populist as it is conservative, if not more so).
Liz Cheney only voted that way to appease her constituents in WY, not because she agrees with Trump 95% of the time. She could've been like Romney and only voted with him 60%-70%, but she's no dummy. But after 1/6, she decided to impeach Trump, and now, after the WY Rep primary, she lost to a no-name candidate who was running with Trump's blessing and endorsement and not just gotten trounced in the WY Rep primary, but humiliated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_U...yoming#Results).
WY is a deep red state and the Cheney name is widely respected thanks to Dick Cheney but Liz already tarnished that name and with the humiliating loss against a no-name, you can't blame me for egging Liz nor do you have any proof that I've joined a ultra far-right cult as it was the voters of WY, not myself since I'm not a resident of WY (beautiful state, BTW), that decided to get rid of Liz, whether she had the Cheney name or not, the WY voters had enough!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
But for those parties to take root in a system where legislators are elected from single-member districts, in most states, the process for getting on the ballot works against those upstart parties. All of the parties you mention didn't last long; the last new party to gain a real foothold was the Republican Party.
I like the concept of the third and independent parties as opposed to the Republican/Democrat hegemony that has ruled this country since the 1840's. There are republicans that I still loathe (the Bushes) and there are Dems I clearly don't like (Mayor Nutter, Sestak, and NJ Gov. Phil Murphy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
In your case, your rhetoric suggests you disagree with much more than 5% of what Democrats are saying and have equated a political philosophy with a single individual. Said individual has proven to be uniquely defective in his character once given power. If, as you insist, you don't become a MAGAnaut because you disagree with Democrats, then opposing Donald Trump doesn't make you a liberal either, as you imply above about Liz Cheney. This part of your argument suggest you've had a little too much Kool-Aid, and some of the other stuff I've called you out on also does the same.
Are you sure that DJT will never run for president again in 2024 and would you bet your mortgage that it doesn't happen? DJT hasn't made it official yet, but if the Reps do take over the House and the Senate, more than likely, he's going to be seeking revenge and it won't be pretty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Remember, you're sparring with a journalist here. As the profession, or at least that part of it engaged in daily news reporting, prioritizes speed, it's going to get stories wrong from time to time, but nowhere near what you think it is.
May I inquire which publications and media you've worked for? And was it right or left-leaning? I'm hoping it's not MSNBC because it's so far left, I can't even watch it except if I click on YouTube links. Other than that, I'm hoping it's reputable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Just for the hell of it, I tuned into Fox News Channel to hear how people on that channel were discussing the release of the redacted Justice Department affidavit that led to the warrant being issued to search Mar-a-Lago for classified documents. About the only thing the two networks agreed upon was that Trump was a sloppy record-keeper. But on Fox, the general thrust of the interviewees and opinionators (though not Neil Cavuto, who is an actual journalist rather than an opinionator) and the commentators on "The Five" was "that's all there is, nothing else to see here, let's move on now." One opinionator on "The Five" even said — incorrectly — that Presidential papers were personal property rather than the government's (again, a law passed not long before Nixon resigned changed that because Congress feared Nixon would try to take evidence with him and destroy it; a President's papers are now the property of the National Archives and Records Administration).
Meanwhile, on MSNBC, the interviewees and reporter-opinionators were going on about things like the Espionage Act and how the FBI and intelligence agencies would have to do a damage assessment because, well, Mar-a-Lago is open to the public, and these papers were supposed to be kept in a super-secure government facility, but they weren't, and yeah. Trump may face criminal charges for that, but maybe not, because the Attorney General doesn't want to make this into a political matter (too late, it is already).
So at least on cable news, it's a pox on both your houses, if you will. (I'm now inviting you to sound off on Fox News Channel.) But as for your request above, will the New York Post do?
The reporter of this story is on the staff of Fox Business.
First off, as a former NYer, born and raised, I have no opinion of the Post but the Daily News has gone to trash and as a former loyal reader of the news, I can no longer read the paper except for the comics and the sports pages and that's it!
So which news channel would you say is more honest, and truthful. Let's be honest here, I used to hate O'Reilly on Fox News due to his constant bashing of rap music and urban culture and perceived him to be a racist. And the old Fox News show "Hannity and Colmes", I wouldn't say I hated Hannity even though I felt like he was a bully, but the late Alan Colmes, who claimed to be a liberal, I couldn't stand because he seemed to be a pushover for Hannity all the time and I directed my ire towards Colmes for not standing up to his beliefs and Fox News back in the late 1990's to the early 2010's was anathema for me.
Nowadays, I'm no fan of Fox, but I'll admit that Hannity does make some valid points in his newscasts. Carlson just analyses and overanalyzes to the point where strange as it sounds, I'd rather have O'Reilly ranting and raging at 8 o'clock every weekday than hear Carlson trying to overanalyze every political issue to the point where I feel that at times, listening to Carlson can be annoying at times.
Bret Baier is well-respected as he just gives you the news and Watters does have a humorous approach to his newscasts I'm still shocked he hadn't called his program Watters' World (he's a Philly boy, BTW). And Gutfield is another humorous guy I'll admit I like. It's still funny that conservatives can still carry on with a sense of humor while liberals and the far-left are always offended to the point where Stephen Colbert is annoying (still miss Letterman and I wish he'd come back), and James Corden is clearly unfunny IMO. What's up with the foreigners taking over our talk sows and newscasts. However, I feel Trevor Noah has had an epiphany and isn't a Dem robot from South Africa!
Wasn’t Pennsylvania a Union state? I shake my head when I see people flying Confederate flags in PA. A lot of folks in this state have ancestors that fought against these traitors.
Wow, I am not surprised this thread has gone so off-the-rails since you joined in, but dang! I will say wanderer, this little snip it is quite ironic to me. You regurgitated the big lie on this thread. You have basically said "F you representative democracy! F you voters! " to my family, friends, and me who all voted for Biden here in Pennsylvania. Our votes matter. Don't behave as if you have some moral high ground on the issue of democratic (small d) integrity.
I was being sarcastic with "the evil voters" line and it even wasn't meant to be that serious, but since you're so butt hurt, it's not my call as to who gets elected in these states. Most of the South is conservative for a reason (Bible Belt) as it much of the Midwest. The only places that are considered liberal are the Northeast and the West Coast. Florida is an amalgam of those two political ideologies.
If you don't want conservatism, move to Venezuela or move to Cuba as both countries are considered leftist, and if you don't want liberalism, move to the Arab countries, Iran, or Afghanistan, as each Arab country is so conservative, it makes the conservatives here look like the Green Party here.
All I'm saying is that if you can't at least appreciate the country's First amendment rights, and you don't agree with either the left or the right, or if you can't come to a solution then I suggest you move out the country. I don't make the rules here, I only abide it.
If you like Biden so much, support him and stop trying to tell all of us that we need to "vote blue, no matter whom" because that mantra alone is driving a lot of Dems from Blue states to Red states and it's the Blue states that are losing political clout last time I checked!
I was being sarcastic with "the evil voters" line and it even wasn't meant to be that serious, but since you're so butt hurt, it's not my call as to who gets elected in these states. Most of the South is conservative for a reason (Bible Belt) as it much of the Midwest. The only places that are considered liberal are the Northeast and the West Coast. Florida is an amalgam of those two political ideologies.
If you don't want conservatism, move to Venezuela or move to Cuba as both countries are considered leftist, and if you don't want liberalism, move to the Arab countries, Iran, or Afghanistan, as each Arab country is so conservative, it makes the conservatives here look like the Green Party here.
All I'm saying is that if you can't at least appreciate the country's First amendment rights, and you don't agree with either the left or the right, or if you can't come to a solution then I suggest you move out the country. I don't make the rules here, I only abide it.
If you like Biden so much, support him and stop trying to tell all of us that we need to "vote blue, no matter whom" because that mantra alone is driving a lot of Dems from Blue states to Red states and it's the Blue states that are losing political clout last time I checked!
Wow, have you ever heard of a strawman argument? You are completely misrepresenting my views. Please stop that.
Ideology in the USA is much more nuanced than that. It is not Northeast/West Coast liberal elites, middle of the country country bumpkins, conservative. I would hope you realize how simplistic you made that sound.
If I don't want certain political movements to take hold in my country, I am going to exercise active citizenship to campaign and vote against them. Don't tell me to leave my country. That is utter nonsense. Your extremist examples are absolutely ridiculous.
I don't like Biden "so much." Did you remember what I already told you, and choose to respond otherwise? I literally never say "vote blue, no matter whom."
Wasn’t Pennsylvania a Union state? I shake my head when I see people flying Confederate flags in PA. A lot of folks in this state have ancestors that fought against these traitors.
That's exactly my mom's point, too. In the part of NYS where I grew up, it happens all over the boondocks (ie, where I grew up). If nothing else, it is so disrespectful to the people who lay in rest in my hometown's cemetery. There are a lot of other issues I have with the flag too, but that one should be enough for them to take it down. I hate to see it in Pennsylvania too. I notice it the most in the Northern Tier.
Wow, have you ever heard of a strawman argument? You are completely misrepresenting my views. Please stop that.
No, I'm not! I'm only emboldening my own views. Because somebody is critical of Biden, all of a sudden I'm against the Dems. Thats why the Dem party is getting weaker and doesn't have a backbone. Every Trump endorsement 95% of the time has been a success and yet the Dems are afraid of getting a Biden endorsement. Either way, too little, too late!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir
Ideology in the USA is much more nuanced than that. It is not Northeast/West Coast liberal elites, middle of the country country bumpkins, conservative. I would hope you realize how simplistic you made that sound.
Last time I checked, the heartland of the country (except CO & IL) has been voting Rep in presidential elections. You do have major cities that lean more Democrat, but you get out of the cities, and you're in an area that's either moderate to center-right.
I believe you're underestimating me thinking that I'm not aware that even in red states like MO, there's urban blue cities like Kansas City and St. Louis, both of which have Dem mayors, Indianapolis has a Dem mayor in a mostly red state like IN, and Fargo, ND, which is a Dem city in a reliable red state like ND. Don't insult my intelligence as I'm not here to insult yours!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir
If I don't want certain political movements to take hold in my country, I am going to exercise active citizenship to campaign and vote against them. Don't tell me to leave my country. That is utter nonsense. Your extremist examples are absolutely ridiculous.
And if you don't like my views, I'd respect it if you refrain from the "extremist" term, as it's highly offensive and I'm in no way a far-right or far-left extremist. In fact, the extremists of both parties are really to blame for this political atmosphere, and I've said before on this thread that I don't approve of the actions pertaining to 1/6, but I guess you don't read properly.
That's why I made that jibe about going to Cuba and Venezuela because it seems like only one view is supported on this thread and that's leftist, and as somebody who's neither of the left or right, putting words in my mouth and I'm pretty sure that independent minded voters like myself will select the best candidate and it seems like independents are more turned off on the far-left than the far right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir
I don't like Biden "so much." Did you remember what I already told you, and choose to respond otherwise? I literally never say "vote blue, no matter whom."
Strawmen, strawmen, strawmen.
Actions speak louder than words!!! I never said that you said, "vote blue no matter whom", but it's the sentiment of the party, unfortunately, and there's no success for blind loyalty! Attacking people based on their views isn't going to make them change their opinions on certain candidates and political figures. And if you didn't like Biden so much, then why the hell did you vote for him for? Oh, because you don't like Trump!!! That's probably going to be your answer!
And if you hated both men, then why the hell did you vote for "the lesser of two evils"??? As the late comic and philanthropist Dick Gregory (RIP) said before his transition, "the lesser of two evils.........IS STILL EVIL!!!"https://youtu.be/y6N134jLYas?t=13 And I guess voting for Biden was going to give you a little hell but a Democrat president compared to Trump's fire and brimstone with his mean tweets when we're on the throes of WWIII, a recession, a possible depression, and instability! Thank you for voting for America's demise!
I'm pretty sure that independent minded voters like myself will select the best candidate and it seems like independents are more turned off on the far-left than the far right.
If someone is truly "independent," they'd understand and hold both extremes in the same regard and have deep concerns about both.
I think the crux of criticism of your arguments is that you're only holding Democrats and the "far left" in contempt, whereas anyone with any ounce of objectivity could easily point to just as many alarming "turn-offs" about rabid right-wingers.
If you're truly "independent" as you claim, you'd be airing just as many grievances about Republicans, yet here you are pretty much repeating all of the Fox News talking points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer34
Actions speak louder than words!!! I never said that you said, "vote blue no matter whom", but it's the sentiment of the party, unfortunately, and there's no success for blind loyalty!
Once again, a true independent can acknowledge that blind party loyalty is very much a characteristic of BOTH the Democratic and Republicans Parties. I'm a left-leaning independent, and even I can admit that.
If you can't admit that simple point, your bias is showing.
And if you don't like my views, I'd respect it if you refrain from the "extremist" term, as it's highly offensive and I'm in no way a far-right or far-left extremist. In fact, the extremists of both parties are really to blame for this political atmosphere, and I've said before on this thread that I don't approve of the actions pertaining to 1
I'm going to avoid responding to most of what you've said, because I can tell this is going nowhere. But I really dislike being misrepresented, so I will clarify (again). I didn't call you extreme. I said "extremist examples" because you were referencing countries like Venezuela and Afghanistan. That was ridiculous to behave as if people like Bernie Sanders or AOC (**EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THEM**) want the country to look like Venezuela. It is also ridiculous to say, hey, at least a Republican like Mastriano isn't as extreme as the Taliban, because obviously, that is as low of a bar as you can set. I've never suggested that Mastriano would be as extreme as the Taliban. That doesn't mean I can't disapprove of his far-right views. Yes, his views are far-right. I can all but guarantee a plurality of Pennsylvanians would agree with me.
If someone is truly "independent," they'd understand and hold both extremes in the same regard and have deep concerns about both.
I think the crux of criticism of your arguments is that you're only holding Democrats and the "far left" in contempt, whereas anyone with any ounce of objectivity could easily point to just as many alarming "turn-offs" about rabid right-wingers.
If you're truly "independent" as you claim, you'd be airing just as many grievances about Republicans, yet here you are pretty much repeating all of the Fox News talking points.
OK, check this out, but the transgender/transsexual/transvestite agenda that the Dems are pushing is a total no-no for me! I don't care what a man does with his body to change his sex and vice versa for a woman, but the general public doesn't need to know nor do they want tax dollars to go to sex changes!
Also, the reason why I'm going harder at the Dems than the Reps at this point is because.....I'M A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT!!!!!
I've been harder on the GOP, too! I've already admitted that I hate the Bushes and their illicit wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (I'm a veteran of both wars, BTW) and I don't like Dick Cheney and his ilk, including his daughter, Liz. I also not a supporter of the far-right and for the umpteenth time, I DON'T SUPPORT THE RIOTERS WHO STORMED THE CAPITAL ON 1/6!!!
If I had to bold my quotes, then there you go! And if you're so lost in the sauce about what the Dems are going to do to stop the GOP's far-right extremism, then I don't have any confidence that this version of the Dem party can stop the GOP because even though the GOP doesn't really get along, they're a much more cohesive political party than this abomination called the Democratic Party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino
Once again, a true independent can acknowledge that blind party loyalty is very much a characteristic of BOTH the Democratic and Republicans Parties. I'm a left-leaning independent, and even I can admit that.
If you can't admit that simple point, your bias is showing.
The fact of the matter is that I can understand why everybody hates Trump: he's a narcissist, which I agree, as well as his mean tweets, which can be insensitive, his business dealings, which are controversial, and his bravado, which I respect but can be over the top, but I'm not going to deny what he did for the country, neither, such as:
- give us the best economy I can remember in my life and that includes the Clinton years of the 1990's
- shredded up NAFTA and enacted the USMCA
- enacted the prison reform program, which helped a lot of black felons and ex-cons
- tried to work with the black community on the "Platinum Plan"
- gave the working and middle classes a tax break
- lowered the unemployment rates to their lowest levels including amongst racial groups
- enacted tariffs against China
- brokered a peace deal between Israel and the UAE
- started no new wars during his four years
- added three new Supreme Court justices
- most importantly, built and almost completed the Southern border wall
You say you're left leaning, but I prefer to look at the country's politics from the center and what it needs, not what it wants, and both parties want to have full control of all the chambers of the government. I'll tell you this: politics isn't kissing the asses of some politician just because they're the same party and if you have to kiss some politician's ass just because they're the same party, then I wouldn't be surprised if those same politicians farts or even s--ts on your face because you love that politician because you're of the same party as him.
The point I'm trying to say is that you vote for the best candidate you feel is the best candidate, not somebody who has a "D" or "R" behind their name. Trying to make me into this right-wing "extremist" isn't going to make me see the light as I've already seen how both parties have taken advantage of both their bases, but trying to say that Biden is better than Trump because Biden doesn't post mean tweets and he has experience since 1972 isn't going to make me forgive Biden, neither. And if you have veteran experience and seen what happened and how Biden handled Afghanistan, now you'd understand why I have so much animus at our vice president for, but it seems like the few people on here would rather see Trump as Satan's disciple than Biden as a corrupt, gaffe prone, war-mongering klutz who can't even improve his declining grammar.
Lastly, I've ran a small business in Philadelphia, and meeting with some of my bosses, let me say this: if you're in any business, you're not here to make friends!!! You're there to make money!!! I believe that a lot of people vote as if the candidate is their friend, buddy, and relative and while some voters like to see certain qualities in the candidates, the point of the matter is that a lot of candidates have a public side and a private side and while Trump's public side isn't the most pristine side, I'd rather have an effective leader who's brusque and sometimes crude than somebody who's allegedly a pedophile, and a son who's also allegedly a pedophile and a proven crackhead!
Lastly, in jail, the people who don't last and are killed aren't the killers, drug dealers, ex-cons, gangsters, thugs, thiefs, and assassins and hitmen, it's rapists and pedophiles! Just wanted to leave that right there and I'm not defending prisoners because there's a reason why they're in prison, but if you're comfortable with a pedo in office, I've lost all faith in this thread, this state, and this forum. I rest my case!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
