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Old 09-29-2022, 09:25 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 8,509,746 times
Reputation: 14765

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
Out-of-touch, Christian Nationalist, elitist Mastriano showed his true colors in an interview with Harrisburg's WITF. The extremist affirmed he would support prosecuting women who've had abortions....
The pendulum swings. Right now it's in crazy territory. It won't last. Roe v Wade was made into law for a reason. Sadly, we have to go through the experiences that lead to that again. People that don't know history force us to repeat it. That is the way of people. People will suffer, and people will die. That, too, is the way of people. We wait until the regrettable happens and then we make the right decisions.
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:41 AM
 
1,322 posts, read 881,093 times
Reputation: 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
I think you've both got a point, but yes, at the end of the day, the most important point is a) it is the woman's body b) it is the woman's relationality to the embryo/fetus and her interpretation of when that life begins. I think the question of when life begins is more than just scientific, but also philosophical. Obviously there are many different interpretations, so imposing one's own narrow definition should not be a political priority.

For the record, late term abortions are incredibly rare, and almost never happen out of a woman's laziness or indecisiveness. Why would a woman choose to put herself through that? They are almost always performed out of medical necessity.
Yes, the overwhelming majority (99.9%+) of late term abortions are done out of medical necessity. When the partial birth abortion ban was passed, the whole debate around it was on whether there would be medical/rape exceptions or not. Why? Because if the ban passed with exceptions, it was more or less toothless because it wouldn't change anything since elective late term abortions aren't really a thing at all.

This issue was glossed over in one of the Trump-Hillary debates. Trump gave his typical emotional plea to simpletons answer that no, he doesn't support ripping the baby out of the womb 2 days before the due date and stabbing it to death or whatever, but Hillary voted against the partial birth ban (as if she or anyone else actually supports that). Hillary's response was that she voted against it because there were no exceptions, but there was no context given as to why the exceptions were the real issue, not the ban itself.
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Old 10-01-2022, 05:15 AM
 
86 posts, read 104,818 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
The pendulum swings. Right now it's in crazy territory. It won't last. Roe v Wade was made into law for a reason. Sadly, we have to go through the experiences that lead to that again. People that don't know history force us to repeat it. That is the way of people. People will suffer, and people will die. That, too, is the way of people. We wait until the regrettable happens and then we make the right decisions.
It is sad. These Trumplicans need to dig deep in their own hearts. They need to ask themselves, ¨why am I so spiteful?¨
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Old 10-01-2022, 07:31 AM
 
5,290 posts, read 6,112,701 times
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If Trump hadn't endorsed Mastriano, Lou Barletta would have been the republican nominee for governor and we wouldn't be looking at the prospect of a governor Shapiro.
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Old 10-01-2022, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,258 posts, read 10,520,116 times
Reputation: 8807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5 View Post
If Trump hadn't endorsed Mastriano, Lou Barletta would have been the republican nominee for governor and we wouldn't be looking at the prospect of a governor Shapiro.
You're overlooking the fact that Mastriano had a strong base of support within the Republican Party prior to Trump's endorsement. He quickly became a far-right firebrand in the State Senate after being elected in 2019, so he definitely made a name for himself in those circles.

Problem is that he's alienating even to right-of-center Republicans, which do still exist.

This kind of dynamic and outcome could all be prevented with rank-choice voting so that the will of the majority is actually represented, and not a large vocal minority.
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Old 10-03-2022, 07:37 PM
 
1,168 posts, read 578,721 times
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Eh, he won with 40% of the vote. Had Trump endorsed Barletta, I think Barletta would have won. Barletta would have still been an underdog against Shapiro, and similar fundraising struggles, but would have been much more competitive. Barletta, as far as I know, has never paid money to attract white supremacists. Though his lack of anti semitic message may have cost him Wells5's support.
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Old 10-04-2022, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
2,212 posts, read 1,425,258 times
Reputation: 3027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
You're overlooking the fact that Mastriano had a strong base of support within the Republican Party prior to Trump's endorsement. He quickly became a far-right firebrand in the State Senate after being elected in 2019, so he definitely made a name for himself in those circles.

Problem is that he's alienating even to right-of-center Republicans, which do still exist.

This kind of dynamic and outcome could all be prevented with rank-choice voting so that the will of the majority is actually represented, and not a large vocal minority.
Curiously, in a state like Maine, it was the more Republican-leaning areas that came out strongest for ranked choice voting in the 2016 referendum "Maine Question 5." Yet after the Democrat's victory in Alaska's special election, ranked choice voting was under siege by Republicans upset by the Democratic victory. It will be curious to see if ranked choice voting becomes highly politicized, or if it continues to grow in popularity as people see it as a viable solution to our two party toxicity.

I agree, with ranked choice voting, we'd find a lot more pro-choice, or pro-choice leaning Republicans. The problem is, Pennsylvania is a state in which citizens cannot initiate referendums. If ranked choice voting gains nationwide popularity, like legalized marijuana, we will probably be one of the last to adopt it. It has the added barrier that if our elected legislators see it as a threat to their power, they will use all they have to oppose it until they are unseated.
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Old 10-04-2022, 04:30 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,006 posts, read 8,876,586 times
Reputation: 10337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl View Post
Let me start by saying that I am not voting for Oz or Mastriano, lest you think what I'm about to say indicates such. In response to what I bolded above, never gonna happen. I honestly don't know if that's the goal of the GOP Senate members, but I doubt it. And if it is, and if they actually tried that, expect a slew of lawsuits from Attorneys General around the country on Constitutional grounds. The 9th and 10th Amendments would like to have a word with these people.
I would love to see a case argued on Ninth Amendment grounds, but it's likely that even a less conservative Supreme Court than this one will decline to ground a decision for the states here in the Ninth Amendment precisely because its language is the most open-ended of any of the amendments.

A quick search on "9th Amendment court cases" turns up only one in which any Supreme Court justice found a right in its language. Ironically, perhaps, that case was Griswold v. Connecticut, the 1965 case that struck down the Nutmeg State's ban on contraceptives and ultimately opened the door for Roe v. Wade.

Three of the seven Justices who voted to strike down the law determined that the right to marital privacy was one of those rights "retained by the people" in the Ninth Amendment; one of those three even said that this right was "older than the Bill of Rights.

But overall, even liberal Supreme Court Justices have been reluctant to reach for the Ninth Amendment when deciding rights cases because they fear that activist Courts could start declaring new rights under the Constitution willy-nilly. Maybe it's a good thing that this has been the case, for we certainly have an activist Court right now. However, we already know that this Court isn't concerned with finding new rights but rather taking existing ones away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
The pendulum swings. Right now it's in crazy territory. It won't last. Roe v Wade was made into law for a reason. Sadly, we have to go through the experiences that lead to that again. People that don't know history force us to repeat it. That is the way of people. People will suffer, and people will die. That, too, is the way of people. We wait until the regrettable happens and then we make the right decisions.
"First time as tragedy, second time as farce."

Seems we're getting both at the same time.
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Old 10-04-2022, 06:11 AM
 
5,290 posts, read 6,112,701 times
Reputation: 5462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
For the record, late term abortions are incredibly rare, and almost never happen out of a woman's laziness or indecisiveness. Why would a woman choose to put herself through that? They are almost always performed out of medical necessity.

Philadelphia's Dr. Kermit Gosnell performed a lot of late term abortions and wrapped the fetuses in colorful plastic and put them in a refrigerator. See photo.






Another explanation beside medical necessity could be that the boyfriend dropped the girlfriend and she didn't want to carry his child?
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Old 10-04-2022, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
2,212 posts, read 1,425,258 times
Reputation: 3027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5 View Post
Philadelphia's Dr. Kermit Gosnell performed a lot of late term abortions and wrapped the fetuses in colorful plastic and put them in a refrigerator. See photo.






Another explanation beside medical necessity could be that the boyfriend dropped the girlfriend and she didn't want to carry his child?
You're describing a man who was medically non-compliant and convicted of homicide plus man-slaughter. He was guilty of malpractice, which occurs across all types of medicine, not just abortion clinics. You can do a quick google search on other doctors guilty of murder.

Your explanation would need some evidence that this is a significant phenomenon.
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