Nearing year 2- how is PA's "Decade of Investment" road program working out? (Pittsburgh: home, construction)

[armourereric]

Your thoughts please.

[fisheye]

Not very good; considering all the money (including two recent hikes in fuel taxes) we throw into this project and what we (motorist) get out of it! Our bureaucracy has killed road work in our State. We repave one highway and five feet after the new paving stops; we leave a pothole. The contract states that we will pave from point A to point B and that is it. Of course the people that surveyed and awarded the contract should have done their homework and the inspectors that checked the work should have realized that there was a problem - but this is how our system works!

In most of our repaving jobs we make the same mistakes as before. We do not start from the ground up. We toss on thin layers of asphalt over cracked, old, concrete. It only last just a short time (usually till after the election and the incumbents keep their seats) and then it has to be redone. With all of our money and technology; we build roads that last only months or just a few years - the ancient Romans did a better job!

Speaking about better jobs: Other states do better jobs and we do not know how to study what they accomplish.

[thecoalman]

Can't speak about the last decade but I'm seeing a huge amount of work this year. Lot's of bridgework.

They did the one road in front of Grandmothers, they did a really good job for the most part. Cut it down good, base layer and then a top coat. Perhaps I'm unaware of something but they used about 3 feet of some modified gravel on the apron in addition to the 2 foot of paved apron. It would of made sense to me to use the road grindings and put some oil over it.....

Same thing with dirt roads, what aren't they using those grindings for dirt roads?

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Can't speak about the last decade but I'm seeing a huge amount of work this year. Lot's of bridgework.

They did the one road in front of Grandmothers, they did a really good job for the most part. Cut it down good, base layer and then a top coat. Perhaps I'm unaware of something but they used about 3 feet of some modified gravel on the apron in addition to the 2 foot of paved apron. It would of made sense to me to use the road grindings and put some oil over it.....

Same thing with dirt roads, what aren't they using those grindings for dirt roads?

I agree that I am seeing more bridge work than I have seen in many years. It is long overdue. During the Ridge Administration it was hard to see any road work; while other states were taking advantage of cheaper fuel. We still are not the most productive state for bridge work. I have watched Ohio build one new three lane bridge half a mile long while we struggled to rebuild one two lane bridge 100 to 150 feet long. While I know that there are many variables; there is clearly a discrepancy in contractors and the rate they work.

As far as the asphalt grindings and using them on dirt roads: Tennessee would haul those grindings back to their asphalt plants and reprocess them and then return the 'new' asphalt to the job. Twenty years ago the head of Tennessee highway construction bragged that they would typically mill and then lay five miles of pavement, fifteen feet wide, in one ten hour work day. NJ is also very proficient with their night paving. I have never seen that kind of proficiency in PA. I have actually watched some of our crews take months to accomplish what some other states accomplish in one day. The reason that I point this out is that motorist die in work zones. The longer we keep our workers out on the roads; the greater the chance of accidents. According to the National Highway Safety Administration; only one in ten work zone fatal accident involve pedestrians - the rest are motorist. The faster we get road work accomplished and the longer that road work last; the more accidents we will prevent.

[BPP1999]

I have seen an uptick in roadwork as well. I'd almost call it a blitz. This is long overdue, I might add. While I am not suggesting we hand a blank check to unions or PennDot, there is so much necessary road and bridge work to be done that I am almost happy to pay an extra ~ $30 per month in gas taxes.

Interestingly enough I was at an infrastructure-related presentation where PennDot secretary Leslie Richards said that her counterparts in other states marvel at how PA was able to pass funding for this stuff.

BTW if you think PennDot is being inefficient you should call your local PennDot office and state and local legislators. Don't just complain about it on City-data.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

I have seen an uptick in roadwork as well. I'd almost call it a blitz. This is long overdue, I might add. While I am not suggesting we hand a blank check to unions or PennDot, there is so much necessary road and bridge work to be done that I am almost happy to pay an extra ~ $30 per month in gas taxes.

Interestingly enough I was at an infrastructure-related presentation where PennDot secretary Leslie Richards said that her counterparts in other states marvel at how PA was able to pass funding for this stuff.

BTW if you think PennDot is being inefficient you should call your local PennDot office and state and local legislators. Don't just complain about it on City-data.

And who told you I only complain on CD? I have talked to everybody you mentioned and more. I have also communicated with other states to find out how they work so efficiently. I have even had reporters come out and take pictures of one bridge beam that no longer rested it's support.

I do agree that there is more roadwork (actually bridgework) going on right now than there has been in a very long time. That does not mean that we are all of a sudden working smart. I do understand some of the problems with financing; money is tight. But PA is rebuilding many of these old bridges to the old specifications - we are not building for the future (which is what is happening because we waited too long to correct our problems).

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by fisheye

And who told you I only complain on CD? I have talked to everybody you mentioned and more. I have also communicated with other states to find out how they work so efficiently. I have even had reporters come out and take pictures of one bridge beam that no longer rested it's support.

I do agree that there is more roadwork (actually bridgework) going on right now than there has been in a very long time. That does not mean that we are all of a sudden working smart. I do understand some of the problems with financing; money is tight. But PA is rebuilding many of these old bridges to the old specifications - we are not building for the future (which is what is happening because we waited too long to correct our problems).

That is simply not true in the slightest.

[SteelCityRising]

I'm happy paying among the highest state fuel taxes in the nation now because I do see more bridge rehabilitation work occurring than in past years. After what happened in Minneapolis we can't risk skimping on infrastructure funding here. I mean in Pittsburgh there's traffic jams everywhere right now because it seems like every other bridge is being repaired.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by speagles84

That is simply not true in the slightest.

Of course it is true! Locally we have one major secondary three lane road that should be at least a four or five lane road with wide shoulders. Of course we rebuilt two new bridges on that road to the same size as the old bridges. They might be new and currently in better shape than the bridges they replaced; but they are simply too narrow. There is no apron and no way to expand the busy road without major modifications to the two new bridges. Like I said before; I understand that our State is pinched for funds. However; it is cheaper to rebuild wider in the beginning than to redo this new, narrow, work.

One three mile section of two lane highway, close to me, has been shut down for major roadwork three times in the last five years. If you drive on it today; it is still lumpy and bumpy and now again needs more roadwork. The problem is that we are repaving over old, existing, cracked, concrete roads with bad drainage systems. This simply is a waste of tax dollars. Many of our roads we have to rebuild from the ground up. We cannot put superficial blacktop on cracked concrete; it doesn't work! This isn't workfare. We should do these jobs so that we do not have to do them again!

PA will never get ahead in this process if we do not work smarter.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Not very good; considering all the money (including two recent hikes in fuel taxes) we throw into this project and what we (motorist) get out of it! Our bureaucracy has killed road work in our State. We repave one highway and five feet after the new paving stops; we leave a pothole. The contract states that we will pave from point A to point B and that is it. Of course the people that surveyed and awarded the contract should have done their homework and the inspectors that checked the work should have realized that there was a problem - but this is how our system works!

In most of our repaving jobs we make the same mistakes as before. We do not start from the ground up. We toss on thin layers of asphalt over cracked, old, concrete. It only last just a short time (usually till after the election and the incumbents keep their seats) and then it has to be redone. With all of our money and technology; we build roads that last only months or just a few years - the ancient Romans did a better job!

Speaking about better jobs: Other states do better jobs and we do not know how to study what they accomplish.

I'm from Georgia but currently in grad school in the Lancaster area. The roads are so much better at home in Georgia. I know there are rough winters but I feel like Pennsylvania just doesn't even try sometimes. Even fairly new roads are in bad shape. Some are just deformed from a little bit of truck weight. There's one intersection that supposedly gets repaved every year and still ends up looking like a warzone. Another has pavement that has developed ruts just in the last year since I started. Then there's the manhole covers that they put right in the path of tires with zero effort at placing flush with the surface. They're so recessed that if you don't know what's coming you basically hit a pothole. Another road they had to dig up a patch for some underground utilities or something. When they repaved it they basically left a speed bump. They either poured way too much or they knew that in a few months it'll get beaten down due to low quality. PA roads are right down there with Louisiana and Mississippi.