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Hi,
Don't know if you've made your decision yet, but I am a lesbian and my partner and I recently moved to York from the DC area and I must say -- I can't wait to move. However, it's not because of the gay thing. I live in a new community and everyone treats my partner and I just fine. However, when we venture out of our community, that's when we realize "we ain't in Kansas anymore". People are generally nice, but get used to seeing a good amount of confederate flags plastered on pick-up trucks and such. I've also learned that York has a high population of hate groups like (KKK, skin-heads) and they don't just hate black people - they hate gays too. But that's the bad. The good. If your partner is having a child, the schools are great, there are plenty of nice parks and family-oriented things to do. We have never had any problems, but we've only been here one year. I'd say plan a visit and make your decision based on what you see and the vibe you get when you get here. Our house is currently up for sale and we're moving away from York. York is simply not progressive enough for our taste. Good luck!
My wife and I have lived in York our whole lives and can't wait to get out!!!
If you don't fit in with what is considered the "norm" i.e. uber bush-lovin', gun toting, country music listening, red neck conservative, then your lives would quickly become a veritable hell.
Needless to say, we're counting the days until we can kiss this dung heap of a town good-bye!
Don't make the same mistake our parents made. Don't settle here and don't raise your child here.
I'm openly gay and although I am from Wilkes-Barre I have a few relatives in the Harrisburg area and have hung out a lot in the gay life down there. I have a good friend who is very openly gay from York county and knew several others from both Lancaster and York counties.
Now I will say it is one of the "reddest" and most politically conservative parts of the state. Some of that is that the roots of the area are more agrarian compared to coal and steel country and a population that is historically white and protestant. Along with the PA Germans (who tend to be conservative but don't really get into other people's business there was a lot of Scotch-Irish Presbyterian influence (the same group that settled much of the Appalachians, the inland South and much of the fronteir.) Although the area is conservative it is not the same type of conservatism found in Mississippi or in the heart of the bible belt. (You could maybe call it "Bible Belt Light") or even perhaps a piece of middle America put up in the east coast.
Nowadays the area seems to be suburban to Harrisburg and Baltimore and has a fast growing Latino community.
There is a good number of openly and not so openly gay people in the York area and I don't hear of any horror stories. Most will probably admit that the area is conservative and many of the gay people I knew were quite conservative themselves. I never lived there but from my gut feelings I don't feel any more OR less comfortable being who I am than I do up in heavily Democratic Wilkes-Barre. Although "evangelical" Christianity is a lot more prevalent here than in Northern and far-Eastern PA I don't know of too many anti-gay witch-hunts anywhere in PA.
The general rule I think in PA is that although I wouldn't call it "gay-friendly" outside of center city Philly, Harrisburg, New Hope, and to a smaller extent Allentown, Bethlehem, State College, and Pittsburgh... PA is not overall hostile and even the anti-gay people and so-called "rednecks" usually will play dumb and look the other way as long as you don't make yourself stand out or confront the issue. Some may even show tolerance on a personal level if they get to know you...
I'm openly gay and although I am from Wilkes-Barre I have a few relatives in the Harrisburg area and have hung out a lot in the gay life down there. I have a good friend who is very openly gay from York county and knew several others from both Lancaster and York counties.
Now I will say it is one of the "reddest" and most politically conservative parts of the state. Some of that is that the roots of the area are more agrarian compared to coal and steel country and a population that is historically white and protestant. Along with the PA Germans (who tend to be conservative but don't really get into other people's business there was a lot of Scotch-Irish Presbyterian influence (the same group that settled much of the Appalachians, the inland South and much of the fronteir.) Although the area is conservative it is not the same type of conservatism found in Mississippi or in the heart of the bible belt. (You could maybe call it "Bible Belt Light") or even perhaps a piece of middle America put up in the east coast.
Nowadays the area seems to be suburban to Harrisburg and Baltimore and has a fast growing Latino community.
There is a good number of openly and not so openly gay people in the York area and I don't hear of any horror stories. Most will probably admit that the area is conservative and many of the gay people I knew were quite conservative themselves. I never lived there but from my gut feelings I don't feel any more OR less comfortable being who I am than I do up in heavily Democratic Wilkes-Barre. Although "evangelical" Christianity is a lot more prevalent here than in Northern and far-Eastern PA I don't know of too many anti-gay witch-hunts anywhere in PA.
The general rule I think in PA is that although I wouldn't call it "gay-friendly" outside of center city Philly, Harrisburg, New Hope, and to a smaller extent Allentown, Bethlehem, State College, and Pittsburgh... PA is not overall hostile and even the anti-gay people and so-called "rednecks" usually will play dumb and look the other way as long as you don't make yourself stand out or confront the issue. Some may even show tolerance on a personal level if they get to know you...
This is definitely the best assessment I've ever read of PA's social atmosphere. Sometimes it's almost like there are really 2 (or more) states in one, but like you've implied -- a lot of the "redneckness" is really a facade, and the more conservative Central PA'ns should hardly be confused with some white segregationists out of 1960s Alabama. I know I get kind of leery when people characterize Central PA as "The South of the North," (and I'm addressing this to out-of-staters, because only fellow PA'ns are allowed to poke fun) because homophobia and any other sort of intolerance can really be found anywhere if you're looking for it. That's just the unfortunate fact of the matter. Nevertheless, some should realize that Northeastern Republicanism is typically libertarianism, and there really is an underlying philosophy of live and let live.
When I read post like this, and I don't mean they are not well written or correct in the presentation of them. I mean this, how did the USA ever let itself become a country of such separation, that some literally have few choices as to where to live. I am finding it more and more when reading, people searching for a small piece of the country to live in, with so few places to choose from. Pennsylvania is a beautiful state, I really love the countryside and the homey feel to it, but I think other than Philadelphia, the state as a whole is very conservative as is most of the USA with just a few regions that loosen up abit. I long for a time when being liberal or conservative will mellow out, I for one am pretty sick of hearing the terms, and can't understand why people just can't be friendly, and realize not everyone is going to be the same on this planet. If my life meant I had to be in York, well I would say this, I may not choose to live there for the rest of my life, but while I needed to be there I would say the hell with how anyone else felt about who I am or what my life means to me. I would live it and not waste a moment of energy worrying about what other peoples views are, or if the place was overly conservative.
Well, SWB, on Sunday a Boomer old lady from York went on a 'stalking' mission in order to offer you a friendly hello and thank you in person for all your helpful posts here. I must say that I found you to be most gracious and tolerant toward some strange woman addressing you in the middle of your work day.
Yes, York is conservative. Yes, you will find bigots in York. I will suggest that if any individual, regardless of color, religious background, or sexual preference treats others with respect, they will find a place in the community. Frankly, I'm much more interested in a person's character and the goodness of their soul than any label that may be forced upon them. I believe many other people feel the same way.
In life there will always be individuals who are so unsure of themselves and their own personal positions that they will find a way to beat down others. Be happy and secure in yourself, wish them a good day, and move on. It's their fight....not yours.
I am a baby boomer conservative and have a friends from all walks of life. There are too many wonderful, smart, and interesting people out there!!! I'm never going to close up my mind like that. Maybe it's because I went to Columbia college in Chicago also my husband is a hairdresser (got into the business to meet women but I stopped that cold for him when he met me) tee hee...You meet so many kinds of folks in that profession. We are trying to make a go at glassblowing as a full time career. SWB is someone I'd love to meet! I am now starting to research Northwestern PA because of him. Hoping we can get a place with a gas well. Blowing glass requires sooooooo much natural gas. Hey SWB I'll be posting lots of questions in the near future. I'm the homeschooling glassblower needs to move lady!
Last edited by diane faith; 05-06-2007 at 11:42 AM..
Reason: mentioned wrong region of PA
This is definitely the best assessment I've ever read of PA's social atmosphere. Sometimes it's almost like there are really 2 (or more) states in one, but like you've implied -- a lot of the "redneckness" is really a facade, and the more conservative Central PA'ns should hardly be confused with some white segregationists out of 1960s Alabama. I know I get kind of leery when people characterize Central PA as "The South of the North," (and I'm addressing this to out-of-staters, because only fellow PA'ns are allowed to poke fun) because homophobia and any other sort of intolerance can really be found anywhere if you're looking for it. That's just the unfortunate fact of the matter. Nevertheless, some should realize that Northeastern Republicanism is typically libertarianism, and there really is an underlying philosophy of live and let live.
Well put... If anything I'd compare PA conservatism to New Hampshire libertarian "conservatism" or even Bush/Cheyney neo-conservatism before I'd compare it to 1960's Alabama. Both parties here seem to be more pragmatic than dogmatic. On the other hand unless your in Urban Philly or New Hope... PA Democrats and liberals tend to be more the rust belt Bob Casey variety than the San Francisco variety... Sometimes pro-life, populist on economic issues, at least nominally Catholic, moderate to apathy on social issues.
Like all generalizations there will always be notable exceptions...
Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies. I just wanted to post a comment in response to some other things that have been said. The (only) reason we are looking to go to York is because we have family relocating to Carlisle, PA and the York Family Medicine program would be the closest in proximity. The residency interview trail is usually a long one and consisits of 1-2 visits to the institution...so I would never move somewhere without actually stepping foot there myself. However, we have been living in Iowa City...a place where being gay is common and being highly educated is even more common. We will not compromise our happiness when we choose our location. Luckily, there is a great need for Family doctors, and I will be able to go almost anywhere that we choose. Even though this has been a web-based inquiry, I think that it is still a very helpful forum to learn about the overall mindset of a community.
Iowa City: York has several gay-friendly churches and the York County public schools has a PFLAG organization. It seems at least to be gay tolerant if not gay friendly. It is too small and close to Harrisburg and Baltimore for it to need gay bars and other gay institutions. It also has a popular mayor who is a young Democrat. York is a formerly blue-collar industrial small city but is on the rebound. It is a safe place and friendly place to raise a family. The public schools there are good too. Housing is also very inexpensive.
Baltimore and Harrisburg are both within an hour of York. Although they have large gay communities, Baltimore and Philadelphia are expensive, crime-ridden, and stressful places to live. Baltimore has a lot of hospitals where you could look for employment and live very openly as a couple. I live in Baltimore and there is a neighborhood near Johns Hopkins University called Charles Village that is has a preponderance of lesbian couples. Actually there are several neighborhoods like Charles Village (Ednor Gardens, Lauraville, etc.)
By the way, a gay friend of mine from Texas who has lived in many places around the country (Austin, Houston, New Orleans, New York, Baltimore, Spain, Mexico, Columbus, etc.) and the world --and don't take this personally--really didn't like living in Iowa. He worked for the University of Iowa and considered it to be provincial, somewhat anti-intellectual, backward, and not very gay friendly. I took what he said with a grain of salt but I think that you will find most places on the East Coast--even small cities like York to be relatively liberal, open-minded and cosmopolitan.
bassguy is so right about york county (my ancestors are from there and I know a lot about that area) - at a glance it might appear urban with an influx of hispanics, there's more to it than meets the eye especially near the Red Lion area
in general, central PA outside of Hbg is very conservative
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I'[m gay but I don't think it's that bad...
I must say that I found you to be most gracious and tolerant toward some strange woman addressing you in the middle of your work day. 
