looking to relocate to PA (Erie, Harrisburg: real estate, homes, unemployment rate)
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yes...thanks, danwxman. you're comment made me re-examine all of my data last night and cross reference it with over a dozen online sites. "In droves" may have been a bit of an overstatement, but PA clearly has a net decline overall, as a state. There may be pockets of PA that have growth spurts but this is not consistent throughout the state. If there is any population growth when compared to the other 49 states, it will more than likely be at the bottom. I'm sure the 2010 census will show that.
A bad time in PA? No, I wouldn't say that. I prefer to think of it as an "eye-opener". I've had the fortune of living in several surrounding states and they all seem to do things better than here. I've also lived abroad and they DEFINITELY do things better than here.
PA really needs to step up its game at convincing young people to stay here and invest in the state. There isn't enough progressive thinking happening to satiate the desires and minds of more forward-thinking young adults.
For example, my parents, who were both born and raised here are now chomping at the bit, so to speak, to get the hell out of PA - and they are not forward-thinking at all! Haha.. They are just tired of high taxes, and every other new tax that counties and municipalites come up with every year. I'm sick of it too.
yes...thanks, danwxman. you're comment made me re-examine all of my data last night and cross reference it with over a dozen online sites. "In droves" may have been a bit of an overstatement, but PA clearly has a net decline overall, as a state. There may be pockets of PA that have growth spurts but this is not consistent throughout the state. If there is any population growth when compared to the other 49 states, it will more than likely be at the bottom. I'm sure the 2010 census will show that.
A bad time in PA? No, I wouldn't say that. I prefer to think of it as an "eye-opener". I've had the fortune of living in several surrounding states and they all seem to do things better than here. I've also lived abroad and they DEFINITELY do things better than here.
PA really needs to step up its game at convincing young people to stay here and invest in the state. There isn't enough progressive thinking happening to satiate the desires and minds of more forward-thinking young adults.
For example, my parents, who were both born and raised here are now chomping at the bit, so to speak, to get the hell out of PA - and they are not forward-thinking at all! Haha.. They are just tired of high taxes, and every other new tax that counties and municipalites come up with every year. I'm sick of it too.
Pennsylvania does not have a net decline of residents. Please see the population data. Is Pennsylvania growing rapidly, like the sunbelt? Absolutely not. Is that a good thing? Well, probably yes. Pennsylvania's economy and housing market has remained resilient throughout the recession and we have been much less hard hit compared to other states.
I don't necessarily disagree with you about some of Pennsylvania's regressive policies. But, I do have to say it is slowly but surely changing - look at the strong movement for beer in grocery stores.
Hey, PA is seeing people leave in droves. There are way too many negatives going for the state. Taxes are out of control. Yeah, yeah...California may be higher in taxes but not by much. The state is rather backwards when it comes to wooing business to come and set up shop. First, the sales tax of 6%. The code is so efed up as it makes no sense. If Delaware can charge no sales tax, so can PA. Shopper choices - this is a rather specific gripe but a valid one. PA still has its hand in the wine and spirits business. While many of the other states have deregulated and allow for grocery stores to sell such items, PA feels it needs to control this to control underage drinking. This is a very archaic way of thinking of it. I have lived in several states outside of PA, all selling liquor in grocery and they had underage drinking rates LOWER than PA; so, this argument doesn't fly. Helping those in need. I do have friends and family that are either in or on the poverty line. PA does NOT make it easy to help needy families. They treat you like a criminal to go through the food stamps process and then to even get a smattering of medical help you have to prove that you are practically totally disabled. Again, having lived in other states, I have seen it done right and equitably, and let me tell you, PA is NOT doing it right - not by a long shot. Higher education - again, PA is in the stone ages. While other states offer a considerable discount if you stay in state for college and stay another 1-3 years after graduation, PA charges full price for in-state tuition. There are far friendly states to get an education - it would be best to move there and set up your 1 year residency. Police State Pennsylvania - PA has really gotten out of control with charging their citizens with anything they can dig up. When a local woman found a dog dying because of malnutrition and dehydration and she took the animal to the vet for care. The charged her with dog napping. I also read some woman was charged for walking her dog on the wrong side of the street. Yep, PA is one efed up place. I've been on a personal mission to convince younger nieces and nephew to look elsewhere to settle down, start a career or raise a family. PA needs ALOT of help!! ...and it's not coming anytime soon. If you are thinking about coming to PA anytime soon, you best make sure that the job that is making you relocate here is paying you BIG BUCKS to compensate for everything that you will soon learn is wrong with this state. So, in the end, don't say you were never warned!
Gotta love the naysayers.
- Pennsylvania is certainly not without its issues, that's for sure -- but you're alarmism and overall characterizations are pretty off-base. As danwxman noted, Pennsylvania is certainly not experiencing a net loss in population. In fact, no census in PA history has shown a net loss in population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania
Moreover, the state is estimated to have grown by over 325,000 people since 2000. Not exactly insignificant.
- Regarding food stamps, PA's system was actually recently rated as among the best in the country for providing among the highest percentages to those who are eligible:
"The USDA report, based on 2007 data, said that nationwide, an average of 66 percent of eligible Americans got food stamps. In Pennsylvania, the number was 76 percent, making the state 11th-best in the country, according to USDA figures."
Food-stamp administration: Pa. ranks high, N.J. low | Philadelphia Inquirer | 11/28/2009 (http://www.philly.com/inquirer/health_science/daily/20091128_Food-stamp_administration__Pa__ranks_high__N_J__low.htm l - broken link)
- As far as alcohol sales in grocery stores, that is something that has long irked many Pennsylvanians, but it's already being sold in stores like Wegman's and will surely begin to be sold in other grocery stores throughout the state now that the precedent has been set:
You certainly have a right to your opinion -- every state isn't for every person -- but you've led me believe your reasoning is based on of a LOT of exaggerations and misperceptions. That said, it's important to keep things in perspective.
yes...thanks, danwxman. you're comment made me re-examine all of my data last night and cross reference it with over a dozen online sites. "In droves" may have been a bit of an overstatement, but PA clearly has a net decline overall, as a state. There may be pockets of PA that have growth spurts but this is not consistent throughout the state. If there is any population growth when compared to the other 49 states, it will more than likely be at the bottom. I'm sure the 2010 census will show that.
A bad time in PA? No, I wouldn't say that. I prefer to think of it as an "eye-opener". I've had the fortune of living in several surrounding states and they all seem to do things better than here. I've also lived abroad and they DEFINITELY do things better than here.
PA really needs to step up its game at convincing young people to stay here and invest in the state. There isn't enough progressive thinking happening to satiate the desires and minds of more forward-thinking young adults.
For example, my parents, who were both born and raised here are now chomping at the bit, so to speak, to get the hell out of PA - and they are not forward-thinking at all! Haha.. They are just tired of high taxes, and every other new tax that counties and municipalites come up with every year. I'm sick of it too.
This post is better than your first, but still a bit hard to swallow.
In PA, we have an individual income tax rate of 3.07% (this is very low).
Yes, some localities have 1% rates, and some might have more than that. Even some, like Philadelphia, have 4% rates, but Philly is the extreme.
Property taxes are relatively low in PA outside of Metro Philadelphia. Also, in many areas where the taxes are relatively low, you still get good schools.
There are nuisance taxes (such as the goofy $52 annual EMS tax), but to say that you are sick of PA because of high taxes is really ridiculous. You are misinformed.
Taxes on liquor are high, but they don't make me want to live elsewhere.
Now, the corporate net income tax in PA is 9.99%. This is high.
Also, PA does not charge full-rate for state schools if you are a PA resident. What are you talking about? Not only that, but you seem to ignore the fact that we have a massive and fairly decent state school system in PA. There's tons of NJ kids going to state schools in PA because NJ doesn't have nearly the size or magnitude of a state school college system that PA has.
This post is better than your first, but still a bit hard to swallow.
In PA, we have an individual income tax rate of 3.07% (this is very low).
Yes, some localities have 1% rates, and some might have more than that. Even some, like Philadelphia, have 4% rates, but Philly is the extreme.
Property taxes are relatively low in PA outside of Metro Philadelphia. Also, in many areas where the taxes are relatively low, you still get good schools.
There are nuisance taxes (such as the goofy $52 annual EMS tax), but to say that you are sick of PA because of high taxes is really ridiculous. You are misinformed.
Taxes on liquor are high, but they don't make me want to live elsewhere.
Now, the corporate net income tax in PA is 9.99%. This is high.
Property taxes can be pretty high anywhere in the state, actually.
The nuisance taxes are annoying but you are correct that Pennsylvania's state taxes (other then the CNI tax, which Rendell has proposed to lower to 8.99% from 9.99%) are actually quite low. Don't forget about the 6% sales tax, which doesn't apply to clothes and food and is actually lower then a lot of states. Rendell has also proposed lowering this to 4% but dropping some of the exemptions (although keeping most food and clothing).
Also, PA does not charge full-rate for state schools if you are a PA resident. What are you talking about? Not only that, but you seem to ignore the fact that we have a massive and fairly decent state school system in PA. There's tons of NJ kids going to state schools in PA because NJ doesn't have nearly the size or magnitude of a state school college system that PA has.
That is very true. Penn State is now considered a "Public Ivy."
The poster was also simply wrong when talking about not offering any financial incentives to in-state residents. Clearly there is a financial incentive to being a PA resident and attending Penn State, much like every other state institution here.
There is only one state that offers free tuition to state residents, and that is California; and even now that is in question given their dire budget crisis.
Again, I don't take issue with those who offer legitimate concerns and complaints -- but if you're going to do it, check your facts first, please. It doesn't do anyone any favors to spread around misinformation.
"The obvious example is California, which provides free tuition for state residents at California State University and University of California campuses. But UC students pay fees ranging from $3,579 to $4,594, and Cal State students are charged a State University Fee of $1,428 plus various campus fees. When the $6,800 average for room and board is factored in, public university students face an annual bill of over $8,000."
Personally, I was born and raised in CA and went to undergrad at CSU and grad school at UCLA and I never received free in-state tuition. All my family and friends who went or are still going to state schools in CA also dont receive free tuition. So there you go, dont always believe what you read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino
That is very true. Penn State is now considered a "Public Ivy."
The poster was also simply wrong when talking about not offering any financial incentives to in-state residents. Clearly there is a financial incentive to being a PA resident and attending Penn State, much like every other state institution here.
There is only one state that offers free tuition to state residents, and that is California; and even now that is in question given their dire budget crisis.
Again, I don't take issue with those who offer legitimate concerns and complaints -- but if you're going to do it, check your facts first, please. It doesn't do anyone any favors to spread around misinformation.
I think some people on the PA forum are suffering from the grass-is-always-greener syndrome--they are sure that they are suffering needlessly and want to warn other people against it also.
If you have not really lived in other areas of the country for any length of time--and relatives' stories and being stationed there for 3 months 10 years ago do not count--then you cannot know if PA is behind/backward or not.
There is some very good advice on this forum, and the best advice is usually tempered with experience.
I left CO because of the hatred for Hispanics that was evident in the letters to the editor in my town (just north of Denver), even though the population of Colorado is 20% Hispanic overall and my town was more than 30% (I am white, FYI). So numbers do not equal acceptance, or vice versa, maybe. I am now in TN--a colossal mistake on my part--and the racism here is incredible. I was assured that my new neighbor was "white" when I asked my landlord's son what she was like. I am having a healthcare crisis that is being bungled by the County clinic--a group of people so inept that they should not be allowed to work with the public at all, nevermind in such powerful positions.
I once rented a TRAILER with my sister in NY--for $1,000/mo, and that was 10 years ago. I also rode a bus 1 1/2 hours to the City to work, until I quit that and took a 50% pay cut to work in my county.
The grass is not always greener--and boy, am I the posterchild for that! Personally, I cannot wait to get "home" to what I have come to consider "my" people--Johnstown, here I come!
"The obvious example is California, which provides free tuition for state residents at California State University and University of California campuses. But UC students pay fees ranging from $3,579 to $4,594, and Cal State students are charged a State University Fee of $1,428 plus various campus fees. When the $6,800 average for room and board is factored in, public university students face an annual bill of over $8,000."
Personally, I was born and raised in CA and went to undergrad at CSU and grad school at UCLA and I never received free in-state tuition. All my family and friends who went or are still going to state schools in CA also dont receive free tuition. So there you go, dont always believe what you read.
and look at the financial condition of CA. It's completely underwater and taxes are extremely high. Fact is, places like PA will always have trouble competing with places like San diego that are, well, beautiful...even if the median home price is nearl half a million.
I think you're other post is dead wrong. NY, NJ, and MD all have higher taxes than PA and NY & NJ have higher indebtedness. I'm not sure about OH but I believe they too have higher indebtedness than PA. sure, many states to some things better but as it turned out, NJ's level of services was unsustainable. PA has it sproblems and I agree there's plenty of work to do but 1) we don't benefit from DC's excess like southern maryland and 2) it's not actually a worse place to live than surrounding states. If anything it's better, which may be part of the problem. I'd like to see PA address bureuacracy, the PLCB, and the state's sky high corp income tax. I'd like to see it invest in cross state HSR as well to benefit it's two big cities which, I think, are well positioned to play the role of retaining young people (who often move to big cities). Philly has already started to do that and I believe Pittsburgh is just reawakening. as for schools, the idea of "no frills schools" has been kicked around (meaning emphasis on education rather than ball fields, auditoriums, etc) for less money. I support the idea personally.
Thank you everyone for your posts ..they are very helpful.
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