Between Pace, East Hill & Gulf Breeze which is the least conservative?

[leathergrrl]

I have to agree with you on that one. Pace can be polarizing housing-wise but we picked up a nice older place and did a full on reno and came out way less on the cost and with a house we really like, which matters. I'm not hip on the red-brick, postage-stamp sized yard, granite, cookie-cutter deal either. We've got a couple acres and several centuries-old live oaks. And huge hawks. LOL--I could live without the hawks. Milton's downtown is cute. It could use a little less of that road construction going on with the bridge. I think they're still fighting to preserve the historic buildings that the highway folks want to tear down for that bridge so I'd suggest getting a look at it ASAP before they lose them because they're amazing old buildings. I'm hoping they stay up.(Have they come to any conclusion on that one?)

I've kayaked Eglin. It does have more wilderness. It's also not open to the public in certain areas so you have to check first. The creeks can run down during low rainfall months and the floats aren't easy but when are easy floats that much fun? You will need to arrange shuttling with other kayakers or get your kayak back to your launch point through teleportation, if you have that, or by manual labor. Blackwater offers kayak rentals with shuttle. We often rent just for that reason. Also the state park in Marianne has a cool cavern, if you're into that.

All in all the whole area, whether Gulf Breeze, Pace, East Hill or any of most of Pensacola, is tolerant. I say tolerant because tolerance is NOT acceptance. When the marriage laws were passed in Florida the courthouse in Milton stopped doing weddings period. For ALL couples. Pensacola said "Come on over to Escambia and bring your checkbook, we'll marry the hell out of you."

I didn't try to get married here because we'd already married in Canada (We are dual citizens) so none of that affected me and our LGBTQ friends in Santa Rosa just made the trek over the bridge. No biggie. So yeah, tolerant.

Tolerance is not acceptance. You can legislate tolerance but you will never legislate acceptance. However, I'll take tolerant people who don't really accept me any day over the alternatives.

I'd seriously suggest you come, drive around, and find a neighborhood that suits your needs and likes and so forth. We do Navarre, Orange Beach (Al), and Destin for day trips over Pensacola Beach. (Too crowded, and not enough to do). There's a large 'new world' mall (Cordova). There's recreational opportunity everywhere. They're widening bike lanes all over the place. There's some neat walking trails. It's laid-back, and gritty in areas. There's crime, sure, and some close-minded people. There's even a man who walks around town with a large wooden cross strapped to his back. It's a mid-sized place that happens to have a beach unlike PCB which is a beach that happens to have a town attached.

And it ain't half-bad.

[leathergrrl]

Yup. 3 hours to NOLA. We just did a 7 day cruise out of there. It's 5 to Jacksonville and If you're a cruise fan it's 6 to Orlando (if you're a Disney fan) and while there's no Whole Foods (Which sucks) there's an interesting grocery that stocks food from around the world (And the name's gone right out of my head too.) Mobile isn't that far.(45 minutes and there is a cruise ship port there too now) Lots of people head over on a weekend to do Costco. We DO have a Sam's Club but Costco is better, no doubts.

[jwolfer]

It seems you are coming in with a lot of stereotypes in your mind. Its not 1950 anymore. Yes it is a generally very conservative area and lots of church goers, but its not like everyone goes to Westboro Baptist Church.

If you look for something you will find it.

I am reminded of a professor I had in college who is from Honduras and has a Jamaican mother. She studied at University of Florida back in the early 1970s, not too long after desegregation. She was warned about how racist everyone would be towards her. She was on the lookout for all the racist white Southerners, knowing that they all had their white robes in the closet. She went to get gas in her car... the man working at the gas station did not come out to her immediately, after a few minutes he came out and asked if there was a problem... she said I want to get gas.. He looked at her funny and pumped her gas... She went back to University telling her professor/mentor... he just laughed... It was self service.. something that they did not have in Honduras. The perceived racism was just a difference

Are there ignorant racist and hateful people in Pensacola? Why yes; There are everywhere. Dont move to a place expecting the worst. Give people a chance, you may be pleasantly surprised. You may find you actually LIKE a conservative person and find they are not as dumb as you think.

[beachmouse]

The international market I'm thinking is Four Winds on the north side of Pensacola across the street from the strip mall with Guitar Center. I'm willing to put up with the overly aggressive customer service because they've got a good stash of grey market Rittersport candy bar flavors not normally sold in the USA. There's also Ever'man food co-op just west of downtown for your traditional hippie health food needs and a Fresh Market (kind of Whole Foods lite- still expensive, not quite as organic) over by Cordova Mall. Among the mass market grocers, Publix also is significantly better than a typical Safeway.

I think downtown Pensacola is about half on the way to realizing its potential- lots of buildings with good bones, independent shops & restaurants, and minor league hockey games in the winter and baseball in the summer for a reasonably-priced sports night out. Local government just has to make some tough decisions about how to handle parking for the kind of residential redevelopment under-30s often love. Sadly the local visual art scene tends to skew toward what sells to rich people from Atlanta wanting something 'nice' for their vacation condo, but the locals try to sneak more interesting stuff in amid the usual Florida beach scenes. And the Mobile Art Museum tries to push it more than you'd expect for a mid-sized metro in Alabama.

[beachmouse]

The big Christian fundamentalist population is the Pensacola Christian College set west of I-110. Fortunately they typically only venture out of their highly walled compound on Saturdays to scream at cars(I think they prefer their preaching to not involve actually having to talk to people about Jesus- they get the same extra credit either way) and go to Starbucks. They're pretty easy to spot since school dress code is overdressed for the area as a whole. If you don't want to interact, just leave a space the size of the Holy Ghost between you and the girls in polo shirts and denim skirts.

[jwolfer]

Originally Posted by beachmouse

Unless you want to overspend for a designer swimsuit or need to pick up basics at the outlet malls in Foley or Destin, the shopping experience tends to be rather underwhelming across the Panhandle. The nearest Costco is in Mobile, AL; the nearest Whole Foods opens up in April in Destin. The nearest big city worth a road trip (I don't count Birmingham) is New Orleans about three hours away once you get onto I-10. Internet shopping is awesome.

I also feel like Florida, even the northern part, tends to be far more live and let live than the South proper. When the gay marriage rulings came down, Floridians just kind of shrugged and pondered 'How can I make some money on this?'. The Alabama side is still ranting about sin before the eyes of the Lord and Judge Moore is fixin' to get himself removed from office again for failing to follow the directives of the US Supreme Court.

The military does smacketh down racism (and presumably now, blatant homophobia) when it finds it. I have seen businesses get on the military blacklist for discrimination/civil rights reasons, and once a place is declared a no-go zone for the troops, it tends to close shortly after. Also, interracial marriages sometimes seem more common in the service than in the civilian world around here so if your family presents as such, you'll probably be assumed to be somehow military-affiliated.

For a place that was designed to be as inoffensive as possible, Pace tends to be a polarizing place- either you love all the shiny newness of it or think it's urban sprawl hell with no soul. (You can guess where I fall). If you can ignore the odd Confederate flag, I actually like the Milton-Bagdad area better- some more diverse housing stock, and Milton has a cute historic downtown on the river.

There is a lot of public land and waterways around here. In addition to the usual state forests and such, get a rec pass for Eglin Reservation from the Jackson Guard office in Niceville- runs about $15 per person and my friends who kayak say that it offers a lot more wildnerness than you get on the Blackwater River.

The lawsuit that ended Florida's ban on gay marriage came from the Panhandle, Washington County if I am not mistaken, NOT from Ft Lauderdale, Orlando or St Pete or even Riverside in Jacksonville, where one would have expected it.

In general I think that many people outside the South have this idea every Southerner is a Bible thumper. I know my great-Grandparents were pretty much atheists my Granddaddy was more of a Deist (They lived in a commune in SW Louisiana in the 1920s, back in the heyday of American Progressivism. No being progressive is not new)

My Granny had a horrible preacher as a father so she NEVER went to church as an adult. She did not prevent her kids from going, all of them chose their religion. My mom became Episcopalian as a teenager, one aunt became Lutheran like her first husband now UU, another aunt became Roman Catholic like her husband but they are pretty much lapsed, my Uncle became Baptist like his wife but they did not like the 'Hellfire and Brimstone' so they are now Methodist. They are 6th generation Floridian, very deep South

A lot of people who would be described as 'rednecks' are pretty libertarian in their views, they don't really care what you do as long as it doesn't cause them problems. I know some redneck gays and lesbians too who live in small podunk towns and dont want to be anywhere else.

Most of my extended Southern family are not regular church goers and politically Libertarian or Progressive.

[SettlingDown]

From what you describe, it sounds like East Hill or the downtown area (don't go too far west of that, safety drops off fast). Really, the downtown area itself may be most to your liking, and everything (ok, a lot of things) is within walking/biking distance, or more than any other part of Pensacola. Also more 'modern' housing than East Hill, and would be my preference as far as living comfort.

[moondoggy51]

Hey, we've got plenty of Walmart's. What more do you need (grin)?

[florida_native]

- I grew up in East Hill on 16th & Hernandez, so I'm biased.

- I had friends who lived in Gulf Breeze, but I would never feel safe there in the even of a hurricane. Yeah I know, Pensacola hasn't been hit since '05.

- I have family in Pace, and it seems to be the most conservative in my opinion.