U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Personal Finance
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-25-2013, 10:15 PM
 
1,267 posts, read 2,795,789 times
Reputation: 1241

Advertisements

Why is this?

I just finishd reading "The Millionaire Next Door" which advises wealth builders to find a niche in the job market. I read that having your own company in one of the skill trades is a good way in building wealth.

Why don't high school students know about this?

If high school students are not interesting in skill trades, then there must be a demand?

What skill trades present this niche?

What about Electricians?

Thanks
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-25-2013, 10:31 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,971 posts, read 73,639,234 times
Reputation: 38937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida93 View Post
Why don't high school students know about this?
Bias.

Skilled Trades Rank Low in the estimation of Educators and Counselors.
Consequently, the trades rank low in what advisers will tell students about
and even discourage this path for students who show an interest.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2013, 10:48 PM
 
31,370 posts, read 34,673,743 times
Reputation: 14950
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Bias.

Skilled Trades Rank Low in the estimation of Educators and Counselors.
Consequently, the trades rank low in what advisers will tell students about
and even discourage this path for students who show an interest.
I love these broad brush statements with no substantiation. For decades the building trades have been recalcitrant to open their ranks, this was a historic problem for craft unions of the American Federation of Labor, while on the other hand the industrial unions like the UAW, the Steel Workers, based membership on who companies hired. It wasn't until the 1970's and Nixon's Philadelphia plan did the building trades get dragged kicking and screaming to open their books to "outsiders."

I would also argue that society in general deemphasized the skill trades in favor of white collar professions and one can trace that development through all aspects of American culture, particularly television and movies as the The Dick Van Dyke's move out the Life of Riley's and the Honey Mooners.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2013, 10:52 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,971 posts, read 73,639,234 times
Reputation: 38937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I would also argue that society in general de-emphasized the skill trades...
Nothing happens in a vacuum.
But as regards students within schools... I'll stick with broad brush statement.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2013, 11:10 PM
 
15,492 posts, read 26,991,204 times
Reputation: 22950
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Bias.

Skilled Trades Rank Low in the estimation of Educators and Counselors.
Consequently, the trades rank low in what advisers will tell students about
and even discourage this path for students who show an interest.

I agree with you. We spent years trying to get the local community colleges to carry WELDING courses to support the local industries in the area. They would rather have culinary and nursing aide programs, which pay a lot less.

Most parents are pushing their children to college whether it suits them or not.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2013, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
20,185 posts, read 17,925,829 times
Reputation: 20481
Trades rank low for a couple of reasons. 1st off, more trade programs have been shut down in the past decade than opened. Part of that is because of budgetary issues. It requires much more money to run a shop class with expensive machinery and tools compared to an English class with just books and desks. Also figure, a shop class can safely teach about 12 students max, which a typical class can accommodate about 30. Worse yet, there is very little interest among students when it comes to these trade programs, so classes often go unfilled. Of course, counselors will do what they've always done... Pitch these classes towards the at risk and troubled youth. At any rate, when deciding what classes get the axe during tight fiscal years, machine shop goes bye bye.

2nd issue... Many of these kids have parents who worked or are currently working in the trades. They see them coming home, and perhaps still carrying some of the grit accumulated during the day. It's not an easy life, and it doesn't earn an income comparable to many professional occupations. It's a no brainer when Jr graduates HS... Anything but what dad did!

Many trades do pay pretty middle class incomes. Some pay even more. There are easier ways to earn the same or more money though. I knew many tradesman growing up, and many had chronic health problems, particularly issues with their backs. This stuff stays with you up to the day you start deciding your own path in life.

Do I think we need to be doing more to encourage or at least present the trades as a meaningful career option? Absolutely. For lack of better words, someone has to do the work. I'm 26 and I earn a very middle class income in the trades. It can be stressful, it does require heavy lifting at times, but the work is satisfying if you have a genuine interest. The thing is, I would have never known I would enjoy this kind of work unless I took trade classes in HS. That program was closed down the year I graduated, and now companies are complaining that they have no young folks interested anymore. We also have a lot of young folks in desperate need of a career. Of course, revamping and restarting these programs requires investment for the future, something no one wants any part of anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
I agree with you. We spent years trying to get the local community colleges to carry WELDING courses to support the local industries in the area. They would rather have culinary and nursing aide programs, which pay a lot less.

Most parents are pushing their children to college whether it suits them or not.
Welding around here doesn't pay much, unless you're perhaps in the building trades. Even then, it's a skill that is difficult to find full time work doing.

Most shops will pay a welder about $13-$14/hr. Even the bigger companies don't pay much. GE pays the grand wage of about $13/hr to weld their aluminum turbines, which isn't exactly an entry level job. The issue is so much welding work is being automated these days, meaning less demand for welders. The other issue is the suppliers which do the majority of work for the large corporations have an abundance of cheap, migrant labor to choose from.

I enjoy welding, and it is a skill worth knowing. Even better if you can master it. For the effort required, it may be more lucrative to find something else though. Thankfully, welding is not a skill I rely on to earn the bulk of my income.

Truth is, trades don't always pay much, especially these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida93 View Post
I just finishd reading "The Millionaire Next Door" which advises wealth builders to find a niche in the job market.
This is very important in the trades. There is a lot of competition, especially during down times. Best to be able to do something the other guy can't.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Censorshipville...
3,555 posts, read 7,046,627 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Bias.

Skilled Trades Rank Low in the estimation of Educators and Counselors.
Consequently, the trades rank low in what advisers will tell students about
and even discourage this path for students who show an interest.
I agree with this. Also some may not think it glamorous to be a mechanic/plumber/electrician etc. People don't realize how well those jobs pay though and it's not something easily "outsourced". My buddy works at a well known auto repair chain, he's pulling in 50k a year without a college degree as a service manager. His techs, depending on how many cars they're churning out, are making 60-75k a year. Another friend is a maintenance engineer for a building. Again no college degree and he's making 65k a year, plus overtime pay when he's needed. My neighbor is an electrician and on top of his regular job, he also does side work that he says pays really well.

Sure, they're not getting paid as much as say a lawyer/cpa/doctor, but they also didn't have to shell out for years and years of college. Most of them have 1-2yrs of trade school and maybe apprenticeship, and the rest is probably on the job learning.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
20,067 posts, read 12,260,768 times
Reputation: 29517
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneasterisk View Post
I agree with this. Also some may not think it glamorous to be a mechanic/plumber/electrician etc. People don't realize how well those jobs pay though and it's not something easily "outsourced". My buddy works at a well known auto repair chain, he's pulling in 50k a year without a college degree as a service manager. His techs, depending on how many cars they're churning out, are making 60-75k a year. Another friend is a maintenance engineer for a building. Again no college degree and he's making 65k a year, plus overtime pay when he's needed. My neighbor is an electrician and on top of his regular job, he also does side work that he says pays really well.

Sure, they're not getting paid as much as say a lawyer/cpa/doctor, but they also didn't have to shell out for years and years of college. Most of them have 1-2yrs of trade school and maybe apprenticeship, and the rest is probably on the job learning.
Yeah. But you would be surprised how little lawyers make. My son in law is barely making it after many years as a lawyer. My daughter keeps them afloat; she's a special ed teacher.

When our business died I was 60. No problem. I sent myself off to trucking school ($3500; three months) and nailed down a really good trucking job that paid 60K for 5 years. Retired on time.

Tradesmen who will go to where the jobs are generally make a lot more than those who want to stay in their own home town.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 12:23 PM
 
1,075 posts, read 1,648,233 times
Reputation: 1959
Anyone who doesn't think trades are important has never had their air conditioner go out in Texas during the summer!

As far as how teens view them, I suppose a good place to start is to examine what images they are seeing in the media. Shows like Grey's Anatomy and Law & Order portray doctors and lawyers as the sexy heroes who save the day. On the other hand, tradesmen are often portrayed as bumbling oafs. Police, firefighters and soldiers are probably the only non-white-collar occupations shown positively in the entertainment media.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 12:34 PM
 
15,492 posts, read 26,991,204 times
Reputation: 22950
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Most shops will pay a welder about $13-$14/hr. Even the bigger companies don't pay much. GE pays the grand wage of about $13/hr to weld their aluminum turbines, which isn't exactly an entry level job. The issue is so much welding work is being automated these days, meaning less demand for welders. The other issue is the suppliers which do the majority of work for the large corporations have an abundance of cheap, migrant labor to choose from. .
Around here, a lot of them are making $50-60k compared to chefs who max out near $40k and nursing aides at $30k.

Some welding can be automated, but not all.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Personal Finance
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top