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I keep seeing posts about collection agencies trying to collect debts and it cracks me up. When you know your rights they become a big joke!!!
The first point about collection agencies is that you NEVER talk with them (unless it's to get an address to send a certified letter). EVER. Period. Here's why. You have no debt with any collection agency. You have not agreed to the "assignment" of the debt in writing or verbally. You have not received goods or services (consideration) from the collection agency.
They'll want you to think you owe them, but you don't. In fact, once you get a "collection letter" you should NEVER talk to them. The only way a collection company can collect one of your old debts is if you allow it. You can allow it by either agreeing to the assignment in writing, or by making a promise to pay them something. By doing that, you have, in effect, given them permission to collect it. See why you'd never talk to them!!!!!!!!!
So what do you do? You send them 3 letters. VALIDATION is the key to your success.
I accidentally ran across the validation concept. It's a "prove it or lose it" letter you send to collection agencies and/or to original creditors. You send a series of 3 or so letters asking for validation of the debt.. 9 times out of 10 you don't even get a response at all. If they don't respond, or don't respond properly, the debt doesn't exist. Case closed. By the way, this is an affirmative defense if the original creditor ever tries to sue you. You asked for proof, you didn't receive it.
According to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, while you're requesting valition, the collection company can NOT contact you except to send the validation (so it simultaneously acts as a cease and desist letter too).
You can find the letters here:
Debt Validation - experts please help thread 32878
Debt Validation2 - experts please help thread 32879
No Debt Validation=Remove trade line letter thread 32991
Send all correspondence certified return receipt requested. You have to have proof they received your letters always.
1. send validation 1 letter (30 days)
they won't respond
2. send validation 2 letter w/copy of first letter in it You can add into this letter that you want complete removal of the trade line. (15-20 days) they'll remove it or not respond
3. send trade line removal letter (you want it done immediately).
Once they know that you know they have no claim, and once they've gotten the first 2 letters (and not responded) you now have cause for damages. They must remove the info off your reports or they're KNOWINGLY harming you... and that's lawsuit time!!!
Try to send the letters to a supervisor or manager.
By the way, right now I'd send disputes to all 3 of the bureaus: not mine. It's not.
If the creditors don't respond to the credit bureaus, you'll get it off the report anyway. But you still have to get the agency to stop trying to collect it. The bureau listing is just the blackmail part to get you to deal with the collection agency. If it wasn't on your report, would we EVER bother contacting them? Not unless they filed a lawsuit.
By the way, if the CRAs "verify" it and the collection company still tries to collect after not sending you anything. File an FTC complaint!!! Send all copies of letters/ and proof of receipt. You really would have a case.
Normally, the letters do work and you don't have to go that far. Collection companies know they don't really have a let to stand on (as long as you haven't agreed to pay them). Have fun! Keep a log of what you do in case you need proof (and copies of all letters sent and received of course).
This normally takes 3 months or less. Don't expect faster. Even if the bureau takes it off the first time you ask, still send at least the first 2 validation letters to the collection company.
You may want to check the statute of limitations. (the time period they have to legally collect on the debt) If it's over or close, you don't even have to worry about the original creditor sending it off to another collection agency (though they might try). I've only had this happen with Citibank (they sent an account out for collection 5 years after the Ga SOL had run out).
Initially, I'd just send validation to the collection company. If they ever try to send it to another colleciton company, repeat the process and send the validations to the original creditor too. Otherwise, I'd let the original credit alone for now.
There is a concept that since the original creditor "sold" or assigned the debt to the collection agency that they've received all the money that they're entitled to, and thus you now don't owe the original creditor... but that's for another day. Just deal with the collection agency and the CRAs for now. Good luck!
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
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I'm not defending CA's/JDB's, but some of what you've posted is off. My comments in red ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by krelithous
I keep seeing posts about collection agencies trying to collect debts and it cracks me up. When you know your rights they become a big joke!!!
The first point about collection agencies is that you NEVER talk with them (unless it's to get an address to send a certified letter). EVER. Period. Here's why. You have no debt with any collection agency. You have not agreed to the "assignment" of the debt in writing or verbally. You have not received goods or services (consideration) from the collection agency.
They'll want you to think you owe them, but you don't. In fact, once you get a "collection letter" you should NEVER talk to them. The only way a collection company can collect one of your old debts is if you allow it. You can allow it by either agreeing to the assignment in writing, or by making a promise to pay them something. By doing that, you have, in effect, given them permission to collect it. See why you'd never talk to them!!!!!!!!!
Actually, you have agreed to the assignment of a defaulted debt to a third party (CA). If a person takes the time to read the fine print in the contract with the OC then they would realize it .. an example from Chase ...
"ASSIGNMENT
We may assign your Account, any amounts you owe us, or any of our rights and obligations under this Agreement to a third party. The assignee will be entitled to any of our rights that we assign to that person."
So what do you do? You send them 3 letters. VALIDATION is the key to your success.
I accidentally ran across the validation concept. It's a "prove it or lose it" letter you send to collection agencies and/or to original creditors. You send a series of 3 or so letters asking for validation of the debt.. 9 times out of 10 you don't even get a response at all. If they don't respond, or don't respond properly, the debt doesn't exist. Case closed. By the way, this is an affirmative defense if the original creditor ever tries to sue you. You asked for proof, you didn't receive it.
OC's 'are not required' to respond to a validation request. There is no requirement for them to respond to a DV in either the FDCPA or in any state that has their own version of a FDCPA. (keeping in mind that if it's medical debts, then those are different because of the strong HIPAA laws, states privacy laws, FACTA, etc., etc., laws. And, if it's a deficiency on a repo then the OC should be in the loop with the letters , in certain circumstances)
Whether a person receives a response or not greatly depends on how old the debt is and whether it's with a CA or with a JDB, and which CA/JDB has it.Your "9 out of 10 times" is greatly exaggerated and misleading, since many CA's/JDB's will send 'something', whether that 'something' they send is 'actual validation' is another matter.
According to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, while you're requesting valition, the collection company can NOT contact you except to send the validation (so it simultaneously acts as a cease and desist letter too).
That would be a limited C&D. As soon as the CA/JDB sends what they 'consider' to be validation then the limited C&D becomes moot and the CA/JDB is free to begin collections again. Though if a person requests that no calls be made, because it is inconvenient to them, and all future correspondence must be made in writing and be sent by USPS, then that part of the limited C&D is still active, even if validation is sent.
You can find the letters here:
Debt Validation - experts please help thread 32878
Debt Validation2 - experts please help thread 32879
No Debt Validation=Remove trade line letter thread 32991
Send all correspondence certified return receipt requested. You have to have proof they received your letters always.
1. send validation 1 letter (30 days) they won't respond
2. send validation 2 letter w/copy of first letter in it You can add into this letter that you want complete removal of the trade line. (15-20 days) they'll remove it or not respond
3. send trade line removal letter (you want it done immediately).
Your choice of words should be 'IF they don't respond', since they often do.
Once they know that you know they have no claim, and once they've gotten the first 2 letters (and not responded) you now have cause for damages. They must remove the info off your reports or they're KNOWINGLY harming you... and that's lawsuit time!!!
Not at this point, you don't have 'enough' cause to go after them for 'damages', or even violations .. you do know that damages and violations are two separate things don't you?
Try to send the letters to a supervisor or manager.
By the way, right now I'd send disputes to all 3 of the bureaus: not mine. It's not.
If it is actually yours and you lie by saying it isn't then you'll end up doing more harm then good. Instead of lying and saying it isn't yours, when it is, a person needs to dispute the inaccuracies with the CRA's. IF the DV is sent timely and the CA/JDB verifies 'your CRA dispute' without first validating with you then that is a violation, it's not a damage. If the DV is not sent timely then there is no violation if they verify an accurate listing, or, if they verify along with correcting the inaccuracy.
If the creditors don't respond to the credit bureaus, you'll get it off the report anyway. But you still have to get the agency to stop trying to collect it. The bureau listing is just the blackmail part to get you to deal with the collection agency. If it wasn't on your report, would we EVER bother contacting them? Not unless they filed a lawsuit.
By the way, if the CRAs "verify" it and the collection company still tries to collect after not sending you anything. File an FTC complaint!!! Send all copies of letters/ and proof of receipt. You really would have a case.
The CRA's aren't the ones who do the verifying, it's the CA's/JDB's. An FTC complaint is good, and should be done, but the FTC won't do anything on a case by case basis. They will only go after a violating CA/JDB if that CA/JDB is showing a large history of violations. Along with filing an FTC complaint, a person should also file a BBB complaint, and most important of all they should file a complaint with the CFPB <- that is who will get the job done against a violating CRA and/or CA/JDB.
Normally, the letters do work and you don't have to go that far. Collection companies know they don't really have a let to stand on (as long as you haven't agreed to pay them). Have fun! Keep a log of what you do in case you need proof (and copies of all letters sent and received of course).
This normally takes 3 months or less. Don't expect faster. Even if the bureau takes it off the first time you ask, still send at least the first 2 validation letters to the collection company.
You may want to check the statute of limitations. (the time period they have to legally collect on the debt) If it's over or close, you don't even have to worry about the original creditor sending it off to another collection agency (though they might try). I've only had this happen with Citibank (they sent an account out for collection 5 years after the Ga SOL had run out).
Sorry but not all states consider credit cards as Open SOL accounts. Why is that you may ask, especially when the TILA places cards as Open SOL accounts? .. it's because some people who are fighting against CA's/JDB's do a tiny bit of homework, end up in court, lose because they don't know what the heck they are doing ... and that creates case law which places the credit card SOL in the Written category.
Case in point .. your claim of "I accidentally ran across the validation concept." Okay so you ran across some info, you read a little bit about it and now you're sharing. But, have you even bothered to do more research to check to see if what you'd read, and passed along, is outdated or wrong?
Laws can, and do, change. Sometimes quickly and other times slowly. But case law can change the nature of the statute in a heartbeat.
Initially, I'd just send validation to the collection company. If they ever try to send it to another colleciton company, repeat the process and send the validations to the original creditor too. Otherwise, I'd let the original credit alone for now.
There is a concept that since the original creditor "sold" or assigned the debt to the collection agency that they've received all the money that they're entitled to, and thus you now don't owe the original creditor... but that's for another day. Just deal with the collection agency and the CRAs for now. Good luck!
Better yet, OP... just pay what you owe people.
No collections to deal with at all that way!
I recently had a medical bill sent to collections. I called the provider and they called off the collection but there is one way to deal with a collection agency when you don't really owe money.
I have another medical bill outstanding and I called the provider the other day to pre-empt them sending it to collection.
so I can so how many people could end up dealing with a collector even when they do pay their bills. in neither cases do I really owe them money.
You need to just deal with them a little just to ask for proof or a mailing address to send the letter. Just ignoring them is a bad idea.
I think it is great. I used to get calls around the economic crisis that they are collecting on a past due debt. None of which were in states I had lived in or companies I remember having done business with. I asked each one to send me proof that I owed the debt...and none did. One collector tried to just say I owed it again and again instead of either hanging up or sending the letter. I just said once he can prove it I will pay it.
From what I have heard...if the older and/or smaller the debt is the less likely they will even do it if you owe. They want people that will pay as much as possible as quickly as possible. Hassles, or people who know their rights, hurt their performance metrics.
I once I had an outstanding bill to Blockbuster , the old movie rental place , for 11 dollars. I didn't even know I owe them. 11 dollars and they sent me to collections. lol
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Good luck!
