Costs of raising children (vehicles, range, holiday, daycare)

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Try living without any food and drinking water for more than three weeks. Needs definitely exist

Incorrect. You WANT food and drinking water because you WANT to live. If you don't have food & water, ultimately you will die. But there is nothing necessary about you living. If you die, the world will indeed continue to orbit around the Sun and life goes on for the rest of us.

[Lizap]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Try living without any food and drinking water for more than three weeks. Needs definitely exist although in many societies the sheer number of wants and desires do far outnumber true needs. I do stand behind my earlier assertion that having children is never a need in modern western civilizations where manual tasks are being or have been eliminated.

I agree that food and water is a 'need' and not a 'want'. He/she just sees things differently.

[silibran]

Originally Posted by athena53

I agree that there are kids who come to school hungry because there's not enough in the house to feed them. But how many kids come to school hungry because their parents COULD feed them but know the school (i.e. the taxpayers) will provide?

We can’t possibly know. But the household income, or income level in a district, indicates the need for subsidized lunches. When I volunteered at a food pantry, I do remember someone from a very modest household who was surprised and thankful for the free breakfast she could get for her teen son.

[athena53]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

The bottom line is about needs versus wants. In modern western civilization children are a want. The decision to have children is an emotional one, it is not about actual needs. Emotional impulses can be controlled or overcome with an appropriate course of therapy.

Interesting thought- if I'd found a good therapist when my bio clock started driving me crazy in my early 30s, I wouldn't have gone and gotten pregnant with DS! Well, too late now. I'm kind of enjoying having him and his family in my life.

What's interesting, though, is the wide gulf of opinions when it comes to what's "necessary" for a child. At one extreme, it's "each kid must have his/her own bedroom in a home in a prestigious school district, elite sports, music lessons, SAT tutoring, a car when attaining driving age, a college entrance consultant, and fully paid-for college". Somewhere in the middle it's "each kid should have a roof over their head, decent medical and dental care, support if they're failing academically, and they can find their own way to pay for college". And, at the other extreme, "whatever the government gives me is enough to raise a child". People at the first extreme tend to have fewer kids unless they're loaded because they want to give them more than the basics. Sadly, kids at the other extreme are going to have a very hard time catching up, if they ever do.

[oneasterisk]

Originally Posted by RationalExpectations

That's $600 each child, right? I suspect you are low on your monthly contribution given your objectives.

Nope, so far $600 a month for both kids. Might increase it in the future depending on salary increases/debt decreases but so far my projections are on track to hit multiple hundred thousands using a conservative 6% return. We're planning on having the kids get some skin in the game either by scholarships or paying some of the costs themselves. My wife got a full ride for college for example. Considering I didn't get much help from my parents, they're getting a lot more support than I ever did. I don't want to raise entitled kids by giving them everything without them working for it.

[Bill the Butcher]

Originally Posted by RationalExpectations

Incorrect. You WANT food and drinking water because you WANT to live. If you don't have food & water, ultimately you will die. But there is nothing necessary about you living. If you die, the world will indeed continue to orbit around the Sun and life goes on for the rest of us.

LOL. What in the world are you talking about?

Kind of goes without saying that living is a need on a personal level. Why are you switching the discussion to what the world needs to keep orbiting around the sun?

[BJW50]

Kids are expensive. I think part of the problem is that there's more stuff. My kids are grownups, I don't think they ever saw a $200 backpack or $100 pair shoes.

[Teacher Terry]

Expensive electronics weren’t around either.

[Size18]

Yearly costs: (breakdown per kid)
1. Back to school clothes, shoes, and supplies costs: Tight budget in our home back in the day, so one or two weeks before school started (September), kids were outfitted with what they needed, all other extras my kids worked for throughout the year, unless we could see our way clear to afford it for them. Sale items/things when at all possible.
2. Christmas presents: Putting a little bit aside for occasion over the course of the year.
3. Birthday presents and party: Same as above, though we kept things very simple and frugal.
4. Summer camp: Unless camps were free, my kids never attended such.
5. Family vacations: Few and far between. We never had the means to afford getaways and vacations.
6. Halloween Costume: Lots of homemade costumes and hand-me-downs from family.
7. Easter basket/candy: Simple spending, nothing extravagant.

Monthly Costs:
1. Before/after school care: I was always a stay-at-home mom, so no childcare expenses.
2. Babysitter and/or Daycare: Back in the day when my kids were babies/little, once a month (or so) I'd have an in-house sitter in. Paid my sitters .25¢ - .50¢ an hour (evening babysitting mostly).
3. Allowance:
4. Activity costs (i.e. sports, dance, music, lessons, etc.): Very low expense. We never had the means to afford formal sports for our children.
5. Food (forumula, sports drinks, kid food, etc.): Homemade baby food and formula, brown-bagged lunches, home-cooked meals/baking.
6. Insurance (i.e. car, health, etc.): Single family vehicle for years, living in Canada, Medical is covered.
7. Medical expenses: See above.
8. Cell phone (for them): N/A (before their time)
9. School field trips: Expense of the school, no incurred expense from us.
10: Haircuts: When needed, close friend (neighbour) cut our hair for years at a reduced cost compared to salons.
11: School lunches (if buy at school): Always brown-bagged.
12. Other items (i.e. clothes, personal care items, diapers, etc.): Old-fashioned, home-laundered cloth diapers with pins and rubber pants when my kids were babies/toddlers (1980's through to the mid 90's)... homemade baby food and formula, hand-me-down clothes from immediate/extended family, sewing machine made things if/when I could, reusable cloth pads (at home) when my daughters came of age.

[athena53]

Size18, you've described my upbring in the 1950s very well! We were in the US, but Dad's job carried good health insurance. My late husband used to quote his mother who expressed sympathy for the rich family up on the hill when the husband lost his job because "they don't know how to be poor".

Many things have changed; in the US health insurance, deductibles and co-payments are a major expense, for example, and not all jobs offer it. In some HCOL areas it's almost impossible to afford a decent house on only one income and that brings with it child care, disposable diapers (most daycare places won't want to mess with the cloth version). Last I looked, the cost of patterns for clothing was insane. Sadly it's cheaper to buy stuff made by people in developing countries unless you re-use patterns and hand down clothing (the cheap ready-made stuff won't last that long). There are a few discussions around here on what schools are asking kids to bring in for supplies now, and field trips are getting more elaborate and expensive- and I suppose if you said it was too much they'd have to put your kid in another class for the day, which would be a disappointment for them.

Your post does point out how many things people consider necessities- a phone for each kid, sports drinks, jarred baby food, summer camps, cruises, Disney World- that really are "wants".