Spouse with secret credit cards (lawyer, employment, holiday, default)
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If financial dealings by either party in a marriage are sizable enough to effect financial security, it seems reasonable to expect both to be kept in the loop.
The cards are her business, as long as they’re in her name only, and she makes her payments from her own checking account.
Don’t know why she feels she has to keep them secret from you, but again, that’s her business. I am in favor of partnered people keeping separate accounts.
I am, too, but I would wonder why it's secret. I would have no problem being open with just about anyone who asked that I have credit cards. (Mind you, all we have is OP's side and it would be interesting to hear her say why she has them, but...)
I'm of mixed minds about this. I don't want to anger or offend anyone as I don't want to cast aspersions on either party-- we don't know enough about this situation to know what's going on. But let's just say I can think of situations where it might benefit a spouse to have financial avenues the other doesn't know about, and if I don't know whether that is the case, I can't say what should happen here. On the OP's side, while I normally wouldn't think a significant other should go sleuthing around on the other as if the other is a child rather than a grown adult and if there's that little trust it doesn't bode well for the relationship, it's in his best interest to protect himself. On the wife's side, while I normally wouldn't like keeping secrets from a significant other, sometimes it's necessary and in her best interest to protect herself.
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Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla
I have kept a separate credit card during the marriage. There is currently nothing on it. But I use it from time to time, if I don't want my spouse to know about every single thing I do or purchase.
But, does your spouse know you have it? I think that's the difference here. Separate credit cards? Fine. Especially if both are trustworthy enough to use them responsibly. I'm all about people having separate finances rather than nitpicking about what either is spending on, assuming it's not dishonest (affairs, hookers, etc.), it's responsible (cards are being paid off timely and there's no running up debt that's going to cause trouble), the mutual bills are being paid as they should by both (both are making their own purchases AFTER expenses like rent/mortgage, utilities, food, household needs, etc. are being met), and both are putting enough away in savings and for retirement before "fun" money (so if one gets in a pickle, they don't expect the other to bail them out because they have nothing put away).
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Originally Posted by KaraG
Too many pieces are missing. How are the credit cards being paid? Who handles the bill paying in the family? Do they keep separate accounts? Do they both have jobs? Why doesn't the OP see the monthly payments from the bank account? What type of credit card letter did he see years ago, a department store card that offers discounts? A gas card? A visa/mc that is used for online purchases or cash back for groceries?
I assumed they have separate accounts (though if not and he thinks he knows where every cent of hers is going, his next question would be, does she have a second job he doesn't know about, or a second bank account where only part of her salary goes into 'their' account-- in which case she has also lied about how much she makes-- or if she is not paying off this bill, who is and why?). The rest of your questions are good ones, though, as we don't know exactly what she's keeping secret, or what the letter said (the only time I can think of that my credit card company might send me a letter that isn't a statement is if there's a problem with the account-- nonpayment, they've detected fraudulent use, etc. Or maybe if they were changing some kind of terms?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla
I think a lot of women do secretly spend money on themselves, if their husband refuses to ever do anything nice for them.
It should be obvious if a person has a shopping addiction. You'll see the amazon boxes arriving in the mail or see the shopping bags, of the new outfits they wear.
I do keep a private credit card separate from my spouse and have also kept money separate from him during our marriage. With the divorce rate being what it is, i want to protect myself. I've heard too many stories from my older women friends about financial devastation, winding up homeless after a divorce, no bank account, no credit card. I don't want that to be me some day.
People can be pretty good at hiding this stuff. They'll have their Amazon boxes sent to work, or a friend, or a P.O. box. Shopping bags are hidden before they ever get into the house. New stuff is introduced slowly. And how often do men really notice a new outfit? If they even noticed, it would probably be easily explained away by "No, I've had this forever, you've seen me wear it before" or "I've had this a long time, I just don't wear it often" and he likely won't remember. Or, "I borrowed this from Sheila" and he might not notice that it's never given back. Or "I got it a thrift store" or "It cost {amount that is way less than it actually cost}" (this kind of lie actually seems pretty common).
Or, there are people who buy things just to buy them... they have rooms in their houses, or storage units, dedicated to storing the stuff, which they may never wear/use, or even take out of the box/take the tags off of. If she has a bunch of stuff in a storage unit that she doesn't use, he may never see it.
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Originally Posted by KaraG
Well, I certainly don't go look at my husband's credit card purchases or cash purchases, for that matter. As long as the bills are being paid, and nothing else seems unusual, why micromanage your spouse?
I wouldn't want a significant other scrutinizing my credit card statements, but he would know I had the cards. Hell, I have friends who know I have a credit card. It's no secret from anyone. That's where the problem comes in... she's not worried he'll find out what she's spending on, she's worried he'll find out she's spending at all. Why?
Sounds wonderful... until you're one of the many who get blindsided and financially ruined. And your response was rather odd given my quoted statement was simply asking if a secret account was ok for one party then was it ok for both parties. It had absolutely nothing to do with micromanaging a spouse.
I think it does. I also don't tell my husband about every purchase I make and whether I put it on a credit card and which one. We don't look at each other's credit card statements.
The OP is talking about a credit card letter he saw years ago. They're still happily married and nothing drastic or strange has happened to their finances or in their relationship according to him. Maybe he is just a control freak and she wants a little privacy and not an interrogation every time she buys something.
Maybe he's abusive to her and she wants a credit card in her own name in case she needs to escape some day. Maybe she won the lottery years ago or got an inheritance and was advised to keep it in a separate account.
We can all overreact and jump to crazy conclusions here.
(the only time I can think of that my credit card company might send me a letter that isn't a statement is if there's a problem with the account-- nonpayment, they've detected fraudulent use, etc. Or maybe if they were changing some kind of terms?).
That's where the problem comes in... she's not worried he'll find out what she's spending on, she's worried he'll find out she's spending at all. Why?
Credit card issuers send out things like promotional offers and balance transfer offers all the time.
What's odd is the OP said he found out about secret credit cards (plural) when he accidentally opened a letter (singular). I can't imagine what kind of letter would have info on multiple accounts. I have three cards with Chase and get a separate letter for each account. Whether it's statements, offers, terms updates, etc. I can't believe this letter came from the card issuer. Was it a personal letter from an anonymous person outing her?
Also, having a credit card in your name doesn't mean you are the account owner or primary cardholder. Could she be an additional cardholder on a sugar daddy's account?
I think it does. I also don't tell my husband about every purchase I make and whether I put it on a credit card and which one. We don't look at each other's credit card statements.
The OP is talking about a credit card letter he saw years ago. They're still happily married and nothing drastic or strange has happened to their finances or in their relationship according to him. Maybe he is just a control freak and she wants a little privacy and not an interrogation every time she buys something.
Maybe he's abusive to her and she wants a credit card in her own name in case she needs to escape some day. Maybe she won the lottery years ago or got an inheritance and was advised to keep it in a separate account.
We can all overreact and jump to crazy conclusions here.
Nope, nobody here is talking about analyzing line item expenditures and determining if that new dress was justified or not. Everyone telling the OP to get to the bottom of this is talking in terms of financial mismanagement or fraud that could leave him financially devastated.
Maybe she could tell him any of that and he would be satisfied? If he was a control freak, he wouldn't have let this slide for so many years. Dishonesty and secrecy leads to jumping to crazy conclusions. Honesty and disclosure prevents it.
Btw, if she won the lottery during their marriage, half belongs to him.
I think it does. I also don't tell my husband about every purchase I make and whether I put it on a credit card and which one. We don't look at each other's credit card statements.
The OP is talking about a credit card letter he saw years ago. They're still happily married and nothing drastic or strange has happened to their finances or in their relationship according to him. Maybe he is just a control freak and she wants a little privacy and not an interrogation every time she buys something.
Maybe he's abusive to her and she wants a credit card in her own name in case she needs to escape some day. Maybe she won the lottery years ago or got an inheritance and was advised to keep it in a separate account.
We can all overreact and jump to crazy conclusions here.
my wife applies for store cards many times for discounts but there is nothing secret about it . i just don't care about the small stuff she buys so i don't expect her to tell me she bought a new gym top .... but the bills come and can be seen by me if i did care , there is nothing hidden .
there is a big difference between doing things below the table and above the table if one of the parties wants to see all the expenditures and one party tries to hide them . .
Not necessarily. A judge can award a non 50-50 split if there has been fraud committed against the community estate.
The Texas Supreme Court ruled that fraud in a marriage is defined as “a wrong committed by one spouse which may be considered by the trial court in its division of the community estate and which may justify a disproportionate division.” As a result, one spouse in a Texas divorce can request a disproportionate amount of the marital estate if the other spouse committed fraud during the course of the marriage. In addition, if the fraud was so severe that the remaining community property assets are not enough to offset the fraud, the requesting spouse can also be awarded a money judgment to make up for the loss.
Committing fraud is not the same as a spouse knowing there are separate credit cards that she is using. That isn’t fraud, that’s one spouse spending money while the other isn’t and the non-spending spouse will be held liable. Committing fraud means forging his signature or falsifying information to get an account. If he didn’t have to sign for her to get the account and she gave the correct information when she applied for the account there is no fraud. He can’t even claim ignorance or claim he tried to rectify the situation upon discovery since he continued living with her and remaining married after the discovery the cards existed. That is considered tacit approval. If he wanted a chance to be severed from her debt the time to do it was upon discovery. He can still go to court but any relief would only apply to future spending.
Unless both spouses have legally separated their finances, and there are ways to do that, it is always your business what your spouse is doing financially because you can be found liable for their spending. Even in non-community property states creditors will attempt to make you responsible for your spouse’s debt unless your finances are already legally separated, either by prior positive actions or by divorce decree sole assignment.
I do think all community property states should require spouses to be notified of accounts being opened that they will be held liable for.
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I’m always amazed this kind of thing actually matters to anyone. Every account I have is separate and private, every account she has is the same. I don’t care what credit cards she has or doesn’t have lol it’s none of my business.
I’m always amazed this kind of thing actually matters to anyone. Every account I have is separate and private, every account she has is the same. I don’t care what credit cards she has or doesn’t have lol it’s none of my business.
which is fine , but it is not fine if you want to know how much debt is being carried and ask her or even what it is being spent for and she won't say ...big difference .....especially if trying to live within a budget range .
we pay no interest and carry no debt so to me i don't care what she buys and she never questions how much i spend on my drumming ... but if money was tight we would want to know what each other is doing and on what.
if that was the case i would be upset with her if i had to extract than info from her as opposed to us keeping each other in the loop .
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