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And if you were to compare Philadelphia now to 20-30 years ago, the city has changed for the better indefinitely.
If you call being overcrowded with section 8 homes, thousands of boarded up homes, excessive crime, public Schools in turmoil, murders many times worse then 20-30 years ago then yes its better indefinitely. Let me ask this. Where you even here in the city 30 years ago or not? Be honest.
If you call being overcrowded with section 8 homes, thousands of boarded up homes, excessive crime, public Schools in termoil, murders many times worse then 20-30 years ago then yes its better indefinitely.
LOL,that does not sound like my neighborhood (as I sit in my sun room looking at my tree line block)
The murder rate in Philly is bad, and no one should pretend that it's not.
But it is certainly NOT "many times worse" than it was 20-30 years ago. In the late 80's-early 90's it was the height of the crack epidemic, when reported murders were in the high 400's. I hope it doesn't get that bad ever again.
The expansion of section 8 in some areas is no doubt a result of all the PHA towers that were demolished in various parts of the city over the last 20 years. In that situation, some neighborhoods benefited greatly from losing the towers, while other neighborhoods got screwed by having some social problems relocated into them.
If I had to pick a poison, I think that distributed lower density section 8 infill is better than having it concentrated into dangerous towers. But if it was my neighborhood, I'd sure prefer neither.
did I ever say it was? If you read my post I said the NE section.. Pay attention..
Every white ethnic and his brother have cried their eyes out over the state of the Northeast at some point or another. Yes, parts of it are going downhill, but much of Fox Chase/Bustleton/Somerton are still clean, respectable, middle- to upper-middle class neighborhoods, much of which are practically indistinguishable from surrounding Abington/Lower Moreland. Whether they will remain that way in the foreseeable future remains to be seen though. The main problem with that part of the Northeast (like many parts of Philadelphia) is the public schools. My cousin, who grew up in Pine Valley, graduated from GW in 2002 and she said it was a nightmare. Many families have left the area for that very reason, but many others have stuck around, either sending their children to private/parochial schools, or grinning and bearing the neighborhood schools while crossing their fingers and hoping that their kids can ultimately get into Central or Masterman.
On the other hand, like I said before, the housing stock in nearby Abington/Lower Moreland offers a very similar selection (at a very similar price) with infinitely better neighborhood schools. Some people are too attached to the neighborhood to consider crossing the county line, but quite a few have literally moved a few hundred feet for the sake of having access to a better school district.
If you call being overcrowded with section 8 homes, thousands of boarded up homes, excessive crime, public Schools in turmoil, murders many times worse then 20-30 years ago then yes its better indefinitely. Let me ask this. Where you even here in the city 30 years ago or not? Be honest.
1990 - 503 murders
2010 - 306 murders
Welcome to the world of Frankgn87, where 306 is somehow many times more than 503.
I also forgot how great the public schools were 1980s and early 90s. My god Philadelphia was a bastion of positivity, what with the crack epidemic, all time high murder rates, fast declining population numbers, and a economy in absolute turmoil, as the city lost almost every last one of what was once over 175,000 jobs related to the textile industry.
If only we could get back to the good old days.
and for the record 30 years ago, I was still waiting a couple of months for my conception, that does not however mean I am incapable of knowing about what came before me. I know who won the civil war, yet I was not a first hand observer of that either.
Besides while I don't remember the beginning of the 80s I very much remember the last quarter century, and Philadelphia has undoubtedly improved.
Last edited by phillies2011; 12-15-2011 at 06:37 PM..
Every white ethnic and his brother have cried their eyes out over the state of the Northeast at some point or another. Yes, parts of it are going downhill, but much of Fox Chase/Bustleton/Somerton are still clean, respectable, middle- to upper-middle class neighborhoods, much of which are practically indistinguishable from surrounding Abington/Lower Moreland. Whether they will remain that way in the foreseeable future remains to be seen though. The main problem with that part of the Northeast (like many parts of Philadelphia) is the public schools. My cousin, who grew up in Pine Valley, graduated from GW in 2002 and she said it was a nightmare. Many families have left the area for that very reason, but many others have stuck around, either sending their children to private/parochial schools, or grinning and bearing the neighborhood schools while crossing their fingers and hoping that their kids can ultimately get into Central or Masterman.
On the other hand, like I said before, the housing stock in nearby Abington/Lower Moreland offers a very similar selection (at a very similar price) with infinitely better neighborhood schools. Some people are too attached to the neighborhood to consider crossing the county line, but quite a few have literally moved a few hundred feet for the sake of having access to a better school district.
I will tell anyone who asks that the Northeast is not wholly in decline. What is happening now is simply the turmoil that the rest of the city experienced in the 70s, 80s and 90s is catching up with the Northeast in a much more diminished form. But just like the decline of Point Breeze in that time period didn't affect, say, Pennsport, or the decline of Kensington affect Fishtown and Port Richmond, or the decline of Germantown affect Chestnut Hill, there is no need to assume that the decline of Oxford Circle or Lawncrest will lead to the demise of Mayfair or Fox Chase. The parts that have declined were doomed to decline decades ago, on account of lacking the tight-knit social structure of say, Fishtown, and yet also lacking any notable housing stock. But neighborhoods like Mayfair or Tacony or even parts of Wissinoming I feel have risen to the challenge of maintaining a lower-middle-class stability by organizing against neighborhood crises- take the Methadone clinic as an example. Other neighborhoods, like Burholme, or Rhawnhurst, or Fox Chase are simply too nice to be overwhelmed by a sudden flood of poor people. Together these neighborhoods form a pretty solid barrier to decline in the rest of the Northeast.
I agree that schools will be the deciding factor if the middle-class Northeast survives, and actually, on that front I think the Northeast is faring pretty well. The Northeast as a region of the PSD easily blows any other city region (West, South, North, Northwest, etc) when it comes to testing scores and state rankings for its elementaries. Several new stellar charter schools have opened up. Even the public high schools, long the target of derision, have been polished up a bit with some pretty effective "spot-targeting". Lincoln has significantly improved both its facilities and test scores, Northeast has spun off a great magnet program, and George Washington has really beefed up its intervention against antisocial behavior.
What I am really curious about is how the upcoming wave of Catholic school closings will affect the Northeast. They could prove to the final blow that sends much of the city's white middle classes packing, or they could prove an unexpected boon, if the kids enroll at neighborhood schools and create more community confidence, and spur a new wave of charters.
The Northeast as a region of the PSD easily blows any other city region (West, South, North, Northwest, etc) when it comes to testing scores and state rankings for its elementaries. Several new stellar charter schools have opened up. Even the public high schools, long the target of derision, have been polished up a bit with some pretty effective "spot-targeting". Lincoln has significantly improved both its facilities and test scores, Northeast has spun off a great magnet program, and George Washington has really beefed up its intervention against antisocial behavior.
Even if Northeast neighborhood schools are doing comparatively well, I would be very surprised if Cheltenham/Abington/Lower Moreland/other nearby suburbs of similar affordability didn't blow them out of the water (but please correct me if I'm wrong... I'd be very curious to see the numbers).
I like how you somehow picked the highest rate of the past, 1990. How about 1980 since I did say 30 years ago didn't I? Why don't you post that rate? Because it will only prove what I say thats why.. Oh and about 90% of our friends that live(ed) in the NE have moved out to the burbs over th elast 5 years. The last couple just bought a home in Langhorne and *swore* that they would never Port Richmond 3 years ago.. Guess what? They can't wait to close on their new home .. We have no more then 3 sets of friends who have stayed in Philly but all of them are saving their $$ and plan to move out within the next 5 years.. ALL of them. Coincidence? I think not.
You were not even around 30 years ago so you are clueless.. End of conservation with you..
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011
1990 - 503 murders
2010 - 306 murders
Welcome to the world of Frankgn87, where 306 is somehow many times more than 503.
I also forgot how great the public schools were 1980s and early 90s. My god Philadelphia was a bastion of positivity, what with the crack epidemic, all time high murder rates, fast declining population numbers, and a economy in absolute turmoil, as the city lost almost every last one of what was once over 175,000 jobs related to the textile industry.
If only we could get back to the good old days.
and for the record 30 years ago, I was still waiting a couple of months for my conception, that does not however mean I am incapable of knowing about what came before me. I know who won the civil war, yet I was not a first hand observer of that either.
Besides while I don't remember the beginning of the 80s I very much remember the last quarter century, and Philadelphia has undoubtedly improved.
Last edited by frankgn87; 12-16-2011 at 05:10 AM..
Millbourne/the immediately surrounding areas of Upper Darby do seem very amenable to gentrification. Hipsters would go nuts over the area's affordability/cultural diversity.
Not just hipsters though. One thing that area has going for it is the fact that the area that goes to Beverly Hills MS is the worst area of the entire district, hands down. If that got gentrified, Upper Darby would be the best part of the inner-ring. It has a solid school district even now, just one that's a bit crowded but maybe that's a good thing given the schools that shut down over the years throughout the district due to a lack of enrollment. Could you imagine if Clifton Heights got their own high school again or even just a middle school? If they combined with Westbrook Park they could currently easily have enough kids for a middle school.
The only question though, and my biggest concern, is if the worst part of UD got gentrified would that lead to the entire township being stabilized or would it lead to the rest of the township going down as the trade-off for that one worst section of UD being gentrified?
Either way, the area is definitely changing. They opened up a business school sort of place right near 69th street at The Shops. The new zoning plan is very clear about what the people in charge want and that is not more working class people (shouldn't really be surprised about that of course). People from all over go to places throughout the inner-ring to eat, even from as far out as New York. That H-Mart place seems to have been huge for 69th street and the people who go there most often. Hell, even some non-Peruvian guy opened up a Peruvian style restaurant there, some place called Barbacoa I believe.
I can still remember when people from outside the area never ventured into places like the inner-ring. It'd be mostly the same people from either Delco or who knew about the place through friends or family. Now with these different review sites, people from all over find out about these places. Those businesses definitely deserve the attention too.
If you call being overcrowded with section 8 homes, thousands of boarded up homes, excessive crime, public Schools in turmoil, murders many times worse then 20-30 years ago then yes its better indefinitely. Let me ask this. Where you even here in the city 30 years ago or not? Be honest.
If you were to come up with a list of the changes and improvements that Philadelphia has gone through since the 70-80s, that list would be much longer than a list of the ways that the city has changed for the worse.
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(as I sit in my sun room looking at my tree line block)
