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Tooresdale is still staying nice .. For the simple reason that people that have to live In the city (politician or working for the city) buy there.. With the city wage tax and what you would have to make to afford a $415k dollar home that needs work, the owners are getting banged BIG time. If you make $300k a year you pay $12k for the privilege of living in the city + your property taxes. Outrageous. Thats what drove us out. We were paying more for city wage for a 1200 sq foot row then we are for prop taxes on a large 4 bed/3 bath home with ground in jersey
I know from experience most people living in that area are not politicians or work for the city. A few may, but you can't sustain areas this large with just people required to live in the city. Most of Torresdale is either solid working class, or upper middle class, depending on the area. People are willing to absorb the wage tax if they figure they'll have a trade off in decreased commute or that they won't have to pay bridge tolls, or something. Now granted, the city ought to be doing more to foster the stability and growth of its middle class, but that's besides the point if we're just speaking of the neighborhoods themselves now.
I know from experience most people living in that area are not politicians or work for the city. A few may, but you can't sustain areas this large with just people required to live in the city. Most of Torresdale is either solid working class, or upper middle class, depending on the area. People are willing to absorb the wage tax if they figure they'll have a trade off in decreased commute or that they won't have to pay bridge tolls, or something. Now granted, the city ought to be doing more to foster the stability and growth of its middle class, but that's besides the point if we're just speaking of the neighborhoods themselves now.
we are 5 minutes from the NE by car and $2 a day for bridge toll. Its absurd to think a $12k wage tax a year is worth a 5 minute drive and $2 a day, don't you think?
You're reaching there, my man.. BTW- we have good friends (3 families) who live in Tooresdale and they are most certainly not middle class ..
we are 5 minutes from the NE by car and $2 a day for bridge toll. Its absurd to think a $12k wage tax a year is worth a 5 minute drive and $2 a day, don't you think?
You're reaching there, my man.. BTW- we have good friends (3 families) who live in Tooresdale and they are most certainly not middle class ..
Not everyone who's buying a house in the Mid-Atlantic has the choice between NE Philadelphia and Collingswood NJ though, that's my point. Parts of the NE are still very attractive comparatively. If you're still working in Philadelphia you still pay the wage tax, albeit at a reduced rate, and you're paying NJ's higher property taxes and NJ's higher state income taxes. You might be paying less, but that might not be the case for everyone.
Its no worse than NYC/Chicago etc. Philly is a tough city though, the businesses left long time back, considering that, the people are positively chopper. If you consider other towns with much more business and then they got much more problems proprtionally hence based upon that Philly's great all things considering. Just tough you got to remember that - tough doesn't mean bad, its just the way it is here you've to be.
Certain businesses left, yes, but others are booming and others are getting off the ground. The whole area either has changed or is changing, with the areas further out from Center City being the most "in transition" and the areas closest to or a part of Center City being the most established. I'd say that the job market is tougher for people who grow up in the area than those moving to it because the factories closed down and kids in the non-gentrified parts of the entire area are at a huge disadvantage.
It seems to be a good time to be a contractor or construction worker or really anything to do with residential properties and their development or upkeep though. New jobs are being created with each restaurant and business opening as well, and Philly/Xfinity Live! should create even more jobs.
The everpresent problems that will keep Philly at a standstill are: 1.) The city is only so-so tough on crime compared to the "take no prisoners" way it was in the 70's-80's. sensitivities were different and a thug was a thug was a thug. The police have the worst job in the world being adult babysitters and are constantly being evaluated when they have under 3 seconds to decide if they are going to live or die when they shoot some punk with a record a mile long. They have to deal with all of these citizens groups who are too busy policeing the police instead of looking at the perps and dysfunction under their noses and making statements for change there.
2.) The second problem are the awful schools. Case in point: Audenreid at 32nd n Tasker is a brand new school that any community should be proud of; instead it is laden with punks, truancy and violence. I know this from both teachers as well as police who routinely go in there to break up issues among these kids who have no parents in their lives to make a difference.
Once they young family / hipster/ post grad crew move into Philly, they will move out as soon as they have kids because it is still not "family freindly" in enough areas to expand for permenance.
The everpresent problems that will keep Philly at a standstill are: 1.) The city is only so-so tough on crime compared to the "take no prisoners" way it was in the 70's-80's. sensitivities were different and a thug was a thug was a thug. The police have the worst job in the world being adult babysitters and are constantly being evaluated when they have under 3 seconds to decide if they are going to live or die when they shoot some punk with a record a mile long. They have to deal with all of these citizens groups who are too busy policeing the police instead of looking at the perps and dysfunction under their noses and making statements for change there.
2.) The second problem are the awful schools. Case in point: Audenreid at 32nd n Tasker is a brand new school that any community should be proud of; instead it is laden with punks, truancy and violence. I know this from both teachers as well as police who routinely go in there to break up issues among these kids who have no parents in their lives to make a difference.
Once they young family / hipster/ post grad crew move into Philly, they will move out as soon as they have kids because it is still not "family freindly" in enough areas to expand for permenance.
I disagree, not with the problems, but the level to which you think they're being perpetuated. A lot of people do start families in Philly and stay for the long haul, and there are more options now for them to do so than there were ten or twenty years ago as far as good school choices and friendly neighborhoods go. You said Philly is going to be a standstill, this is just the wrong way to look at something. Nothing exists in a state of standstill, there's forces at work, even if they're subtle and exist beneath the day to day image of the city, that are changing the city. Look at the city twenty years ago, look at it now, there are changes both good and bad but the city certainly hasn't stood still.
Standstill may be too tough a word but the overwhelming response I get from young and old who decide to leave Philly ( and are not forced by job, school, etc.) is " I don't feel safe here". Something has to be said for that.
The everpresent problems that will keep Philly at a standstill are: 1.) The city is only so-so tough on crime compared to the "take no prisoners" way it was in the 70's-80's. sensitivities were different and a thug was a thug was a thug. The police have the worst job in the world being adult babysitters and are constantly being evaluated when they have under 3 seconds to decide if they are going to live or die when they shoot some punk with a record a mile long. They have to deal with all of these citizens groups who are too busy policeing the police instead of looking at the perps and dysfunction under their noses and making statements for change there.
2.) The second problem are the awful schools. Case in point: Audenreid at 32nd n Tasker is a brand new school that any community should be proud of; instead it is laden with punks, truancy and violence. I know this from both teachers as well as police who routinely go in there to break up issues among these kids who have no parents in their lives to make a difference.
Once they young family / hipster/ post grad crew move into Philly, they will move out as soon as they have kids because it is still not "family freindly" in enough areas to expand for permenance.
As has been mentioned time and time again, there are more people with college degrees sending their children to school in Philadelphia today, then there were in any point previously in Philadelphia's history.
There are absolutely still bad schools in Philadelphia. But Downtown and in the surrounding neighborhoods a lot of the schools are performing better than they have at any point in the past 40 years. Most of the young family/ hipster/ post grad crew are not living in the hood. Audenreid??? That school is in the middle of one of the worst neighborhoods in the entire city. What percentage of the children that attend that school have parents with a college degree? 5%? 1%? I mean honestly, places like that are not where young family/ hipster/ post grad crew are living nor where they are sending their children.
There are still MAJOR problems with Philadelphia's school system. I mean I would almost say that they're so severe that they can't be overstated... but you obviously can as people seem to constantly do so. As bad as the school system is as a whole, there are well performing public schools in the city. Many of the neighborhood schools in good neighborhoods are doing just fine and constantly improving, and Philadelphia's magnet schools rank among the nations best. For most growing up in the city, the education system is not much of an asset, but for the children of college graduates that isn't really the case.
Secondly your complaints about the PPD are baseless. You really want to go back to the way it was in the 70-80s? When the police were just as much thugs as the thugs they were roughing up? You want to go back to the days when we BOMB our own city? To the days when murders went unsolved at a ridiculously high rate, and in general the police force was a bumbling mess, performing so poorly that so many people couldn't even be convicted of their crimes. And those who were convicted, like Mummia for example, had their cases handled SO POORLY that the murder may soon walk free?
I think that Philadelphia has the best police force in the entire country today. What they are able to accomplish, on the budget that they have, is nothing short of amazing in my mind. Cops used to always act like bullies in this city, not just to thugs, but to law abiding residents. Led by their backwards fool in chief, Rizzo and his underlings, they developed an awful reputation. Today the police force is super professional. It seems they hardly ever lose their cool anymore. Their rate of solving crimes today is much higher than it was in the past. When something awful happens like a cop is killed, it seems like within no time at all, they catch their man, assemble excellent evidence and get them convicted. Life in prison, no parole, no screwing with evidence or witnesses tampering, no chance for more crazy mumia crap.
Aside from handling crime, and actually solving cases, they are also doing neighborhood out reach programs, walking the streets again. Making communities feel safer. And in general are so much more friendly and helpful than cops in just about any other major city that i've been to.
They've been doing their job just fine, without having to resort to the brutal tactics of the past, why in the world would you want to go back to them? I think the way they handled the whole occupy Philly thing is an excellent example of how far they came. They weren't thugs, they didn't hurt anyone. Despite enduring some abuse from the protesters, they always kept their cool. They never let it get personal. They just watched over everything, and as soon as a law was broken they would coolly and calmly arrest the offending parties. No brutality, no excess force.
While just about every other city in the country had their police force embarrass them during that time, I thought the PPD acted basically perfectly and deserved to be commended for doing such and excellent job.
Finally, you think ANYTHING is keeping Philadelphia at a "standstill"? Philly has been constantly improving for 20 years now, hardly a standstill.
Once they young family / hipster/ post grad crew move into Philly, they will move out as soon as they have kids because it is stillnot "family freindly" in enough areas to expand for permenance
I don't see you can say that the city is always getting better when you have areas that invested in a brand new school with state of the art facilities and it's full of crime. If you read my post, I said exactly that it's "not "family freindly" in enough areas to expand for permenance". Sorry but like it or not, that has to include the WHOLE city...not just parts here and parts there. Expansion is growing and I think the police do a great job, we just need more.
I also disagree about the way the city used to be. Grays Ferry is one of the worst neighborhoods in the city because the police are not allowed to do their jobs anymore. As late as 1993, it was one of the most stable areas in the city with leagues, sports, a thriving rec center where you could hang out any night. Why is it so bad now?? Because the city allowed Section 8 to run amuck and the damage is done.
Schools. Yeah they are better but thats a relative term. Especially if you live near Merideth, etc and other higher end tax zip codes. Even with improved safety, you have almost ZERO activities for kids to do compared to the burbs.
Again, "stanstill" is too much but you have to give a little and stop callijng everybody's arguements absurd. They have basis; I've been here 37 yeras.
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BTW- we have good friends (3 families) who live in Tooresdale and they are most certainly not middle class ..
