Moving to Philly - 30s, no kids (Philadelphia, Reading: middle-class, apartment)

[I.Have.Questions]

When are you moving?
Spring 2011

Where are you coming from?
Dallas, TX

Why are you moving?
Job

Where will you be working?
Center City

Have you been here yet?
Yes

Will you buy or rent?
Looking to buy

If buying, are you looking for a house or a condo? How much can you spend?
Single Family Home - 400,000-550,000(?)
Really want 2 car garage + yard.

If renting, are you looking for an apartment, a townhouse or loft? How much can you spend?
Do you prefer hi-rise or walk up?

Are you married or single? Do you have children?
Married, mid-30s - no kids

Do you prefer public or private schools? N/A
Do you have pets? No
Do you want or need a yard?
Yes - really want some "space" for garden and patio (prefer some privacy) - doesn't have to be a lot

Are you keeping a car?
Yes - 2 cars

Do you prefer bustling activity or calm and quiet?
Both - but probably lean toward calm

What do you want to be closest to?
Work
Prefer < 40 minute commute (car/train)
Shopping
Nice to be able to walk for the basics, but will have car
Basic services (supermarket, drugstore, etc.)
Nice to be able to walk for the basics, but will have car
Nightlife
Important for arts/cultural activities - would be great to have it a train/cab ride away
Train or subway stations
Would be nice

I feel old, selfish and unreasonable to articulate a list of wants to the awesome people on this site (so many who are kind enough to help). I do respect the feedback from you all.

We're both in our mid 30's and have lived in a number of "big cities" west of the Mississippi - usually not "in" a downtown, but close enough to have a quick commute, safe neighborhood and a short drive to great shopping, great restaurants and great nightlife (movies, arts, music). The suburbs are a little too "sterile" for us and full of chain stores and restaurants that aren't ideally what we are looking for.

We did have a chance to live in Center City Philly for a couple of months a while back, but it was short. Literally life consisted of work, a couple of good meals out a week and weekend trips around the NE. Almost totally ignorant of the area outside of Girard/South/Delaware/Schuylkill - a very limited experience.

Here are my impressions...
- A car is necessary (for my sanity)
- There are many great restaurants in Philly
- Traffic is horrible
- Great arts and cultural activities
- Transportation by cab/train is something you can get used to
- Shopping in the city sucks (food, clothes, furniture)
- I need a car
- The Italian Market is amazing
- The density, I can't work in it and live in it and stay sane (can I?)
- Reading Terminal Market - I don't get the big deal (We're used to quirky, yet practical urban/farmer's markets with local vendors and artisanal products)

Other thoughts...
A "detached" home would be ideal, avoiding condos and duplexes. A rowhome somehow doesn't feel right for us, but we might be able to be convinced - narrow, small and spiral stairs that will kill me. We also feel like we would like a little more space between neighbors. I would like to crank the subwoffer on a good action movie one in a while.

Would like to have a "decently sized" yard and appreciate a little separation / privacy between neighbors. While we've had great neighbors and love being part of a neighborhood, but we don't care to look out on our neighbor's back yard from the dining room (and vice-versa). Don't need a huge yard, but enough for a patio, garden, and place to relax.

And we both each want/need a car - we'd drive each other crazy trying to share a single car. Garage for both... please?

We don't want to have to constantly "worry" about safety and want to be able to walk around our neighborhood, but are comfortable in being part of a neighborhood "in transition". Is there a way to get this and still be kinda close to downtown?

We love the access to arts and cultural activities that Philly offers - lectures, opera, theater, the symphony, live music, art exhibits, first Friday in Old City... We do get excited thinking about plugging in to those things more. And NYC being a couple hours away is pretty cool.

We are also kinda foodies who like to cook and eat out regularly. I'm a little embarrassed to suggest that we've been spoiled by Dallas' Central Market stores and multiple 50,000-60,000 sq ft Whole Foods in the cities we've lived. The 2 WFMs that people rave about in the city are tiny (I understand, they are in the city) - are there any "great" supermarkets?

What a long posting... Hopefully it was a bit of information to help you all help us. Much thanks for reading this far. We do appreciate any feedback that you may have.

So where should we be looking and what should we consider?

[kidphilly]

Well based on the criteria, finding all may be tough and in the price range.

You may want to look at areas on the main line or haddonfield/moorestown on the Jersey side, though certain areas in these towns may be out of the price range. Also Chestnut Hill may be an option but the more I think about it for proximity to Center city and most of your criteria Moorestown may be what you are looking for, plus you will love Wegmans way better than Whole Food of which there will be many nearby to Moorestown

[FindingZen]

Thanks for filling out the survey in so much detail!

I'll leave it up to others to make suggestions on specific towns... but suffice it to say that you should have lots of choices for what you are looking for, particularly in the 'burbs where detached SFHs are mostly the rule. Inside the city, you will indeed find mostly rowhomes of varying distinction.

The comparison to Dallas is interesting. From my observation of Dallas, I find it to be a rather "sprawly" city. You'll find that Philly is typical of many Northeastern cities in its high density. Center City neighborhoods are simultaneously a pedestrian's dream and a driver's nightmare. Unless your job requires you to drive during the day, I'd strongly encourage you to consider living near a SEPTA Regional Rail station (on the PA side) or PATCO High Speed Line (on the NJ side).

50K square foot supermarkets are all but impossible within the city limits but are fairly common out in the 'burbs. Perhaps the Reading Terminal has passed its "quirky stage" but I believe all of the vendors and many of their products are indeed from the Tri-State region. Have you patronized the Pennsylvania Amish folks' various ventures at the Terminal? While a smaller venue, you may like DiBruno Brothers on the 1700 block of Chestnut Street for picking up some upscale staples. There's also a store on the 400(?) block of South Street (whose name escapes me) that you may appreciate as well. Otherwise, Philly is a dream town for gourmands who like to eat out.

I'll concede that downtown shopping could be better. The lack of major department stores other than Macy's is certainly telling. You may find yourself out at the King of Prussia Court and Plaza a lot...or maybe Cherry Hill Mall if you choose NJ.

Actually, with all of my suburban hints, you may actually like Mount Airy in NW Philly. It's a laid-back, diverse, generally middle-class neighborhood. I believe you should find the "just enough" home you're looking for in your range. The only caveat would be the two-car garage. Actually, now that I think of it, two-car garages would be rare in all but the outskirts of Philly: NE Philly (aka the "concrete suburb") and maybe(?) the Girard Estates in extreme South Philly.

Good luck to you!

Edit: per kidphilly, you're bound to love Wegman's.

[frankgn87]

the 2 car garage is gonna be hard to find.. I know cause I wanted one 2 years ago when we bought.. They are out there but you are most likely gonna be paying the full 550k. Id recommend Moorestown too. Or Haddonfield NJ

[Tangled Threads]

In NJ, look along the PATCO line - Collingswood, Westmont, Haddonfield

In PA, look at Narberth, Ardmore

[newmarlig]

West Mt. Airy would work well for you.

Mount Airy, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[templeu]

How big of a house do you want? When my husband and I were looking (also in 30's and no kids) we seriously considered Overbrook Farms...an area that I do not think gets enough props. The homes are amazing! This area is right on the fringe of the mainline without the mainline prices. The kicker is you have to pay city wage tax, but if you're already working in the city, that's a non-issue, b/c you'll be paying the wage tax anyway. You can hop on the R5 line and be in the city quickly, or be a fairly quick drive into the city. And alternatively, have access to the amenities in the mainline (e.g., neighboring Bala, Wynnewood, Merion Station). Manayunk and Mount Airy are a pretty quick drive away as well if you wanted to access the shops/restaurants/park in those areas.

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by newmarlig

West Mt. Airy would work well for you.

Mount Airy, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know if you are black or white or whatever but keep in mind Mt Airy is almost 100% black.

[templeu]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

I don't know if you are black or white or whatever but keep in mind Mt Airy is almost 100% black.

???

West Mount Airy is pretty demographically mixed, and is comprised of a working professionals. 50% of the faculty I know, live in Mt Airy. The level of intellectualism in that area is about as high as anywhere in Phila metro. It's a great choice for anyone who wants a city-light lifestyle and wants to be around open-minded individuals.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

I don't know if you are black or white or whatever but keep in mind Mt Airy is almost 100% black.

Per your own link reference, Mount Airy was about 68% black just ten years ago. I also suspect that the article includes both West and East of Germantown Avenue.

East Mount Airy, while a primarily quiet, working-/middle-class black community for many years, is apparently gaining a more diverse population per many forum posts. And while the concept of a laid-back, safer minority community is sadly the exception rather than the rule in Philly, I don't believe anyone should have anymore concerns about East Mount Airy than West Mount Airy. no matter what their cultural background.