Philadelphia 2035 (Reading, Wall, Howard: store, trains, yard)

[SirGreenDown]

Originally Posted by Darbarian

Honestly, thats the one thing I cannot fault SEPTA on. They weren't around until after the collapse of the PTC, and there were huge pissing contests with the construction of the EL and Subway. Plus there were other factors in the 20's and 30's that hamstrung Philadelphia in completing their rapid transit system.



I will support the notion that SEPTA is all about bustitution. Their only major rail project since extending the Subway to Pattison Ave. is the 15 Trolley and the work they were doing over the summer on the 13 along Chester Ave.

Heck, they are even talking about BRT along Roosevelt Blvd as a cheaper alternative to the Subway extension. I just find it hysterical that the Blvd project isn't considered shovel ready based on the amount of times its construction has been studied, planned, and restudied.

They have their monopoly, and an inflexible, greedy union that is behind the operators. Plus having suburban counties with a voting influence on the SEPTA board doesn't bode well for transit expansion within the City.

Well if they're not going to expand anytime soon can they at least get new subway cars? Lol I hate the el trains they feel so outdated and need more space I think. I like the cars in NYC that give ample room in the middle of the car to stand if they're no more seats left. Just today on the el, during the 5' oclock hour when they run the A and B trains...its packed! And people are squeezed in the tiny isle and spilling out as the doors open trying to find something to hold on to. I don't know... I just think the subway system/cars should better for a city this size. It's defenitly not the worse though.

[Darbarian]

Originally Posted by SirGreenDown

Well if they're not going to expand anytime soon can they at least get new subway cars? Lol I hate the el trains they feel so outdated and need more space I think. I like the cars in NYC that give ample room in the middle of the car to stand if they're no more seats left. Just today on the el, during the 5' oclock hour when they run the A and B trains...its packed! And people are squeezed in the tiny isle and spilling out as the doors open trying to find something to hold on to. I don't know... I just think the subway system/cars should better for a city this size. It's defenitly not the worse though.

You're going to see new cars on the BSL before the EL. The EL cars were replaced in 1997. the Ad-tranz cars old Almond Joy Budd's from the 60's, which If I remember were a bit roomier than the current rolling stock.

I hope Septa does see that design flaw for the next generation of EL cars.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by SirGreenDown

Well if they're not going to expand anytime soon can they at least get new subway cars? Lol I hate the el trains they feel so outdated and need more space I think. I like the cars in NYC that give ample room in the middle of the car to stand if they're no more seats left. Just today on the el, during the 5' oclock hour when they run the A and B trains...its packed! And people are squeezed in the tiny isle and spilling out as the doors open trying to find something to hold on to. I don't know... I just think the subway system/cars should better for a city this size. It's defenitly not the worse though.

Well, it's supposed to be packed a rush hour.
An easier way to add capacity is just to add more cars to the existing trains. The SEPTA trains are all very short compared to trains on most of the MTA lines. Neither he BSL or the El are running at anywhere near capacity though.
But yeah, I hated the new El cars when they got them. They seemed cheap, and the upholstery on the padded seats was shot within 2 years. I wondered what they were thinking ordering those options. The BSL cars have held up so much better.

[SirGreenDown]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Well, it's supposed to be packed a rush hour.
An easier way to add capacity is just to add more cars to the existing trains. The SEPTA trains are all very short compared to trains on most of the MTA lines. Neither he BSL or the El are running at anywhere near capacity though.
But yeah, I hated the new El cars when they got them. They seemed cheap, and the upholstery on the padded seats was shot within 2 years. I wondered what they were thinking ordering those options. The BSL cars have held up so much better.

Listen genius I know it's supposed to be packed, that's not the problem. It was only an example as to why they should have more space, or like you said more cars. The BSL cars aren't that bad though, they could be better but they're not bad. Actually I think the BSL cars are a bit more spacious than the el cars also.

[Darbarian]

Originally Posted by SirGreenDown

Listen genius I know it's supposed to be packed, that's not the problem. It was only an example as to why they should have more space, or like you said more cars. The BSL cars aren't that bad though, they could be better but they're not bad. Actually I think the BSL cars are a bit more spacious than the el cars also.

Howard Eskin, is that you?

/sarcasm

Here are the dimension for the M-4's (The EL)
Width (Inches)9' 2"
Length (feet)55' 2"
Height 13' 0"


And here are the dimension for the B-IV's(BSL)

Width (Inches)10' 1-1/2" (3,086 mm)
Length (feet)67' 6"
Height 12' 3/32"



So you are correct in your assumption that the EL cars are smaller than the BSL cars. The M-4's are a lesson in design flaw. Yea, the ride is much smoother than what the M-3 Almond Joy's provided, but the lack of standing room hurts. Septa should look at adding an extra car to the rush hour trainsets.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by SirGreenDown

Listen genius I know it's supposed to be packed, that's not the problem. It was only an example as to why they should have more space, or like you said more cars. The BSL cars aren't that bad though, they could be better but they're not bad. Actually I think the BSL cars are a bit more spacious than the el cars also.

Thanks for the compliment.
Here's another genius fact for you: The BSL runs on wider gauge tracks, which is the main reason the individual cars are substantially larger and more spacious. (edit: oops some other genius said it first!)
But yes, I think the Market Frankford trains are poorly outfitted. The new smaller gauge R142 trains that Adtranz made for the old IRT lines on the MTA are a lot better IMO.

[Darbarian]

Originally Posted by rotodome

Thanks for the compliment.
Here's another genius fact for you: The BSL runs on wider gauge tracks, which is the main reason the individual cars are substantially larger and more spacious. (edit: oops some other genius said it first!)
But yes, I think the Market Frankford trains are poorly outfitted. The new smaller gauge R142 trains that Adtranz made for the old IRT lines on the MTA are a lot better IMO.

Acutally, the EL runs on the wider gauge tracks. Its currently gauged at 5 ft 2 1/2 in (1,588 mm), which is also known as Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge.

[kidphilly]

Philadelphia 2012, still hostile will see what 2035 brings

[DarkWolf]

Philly > 2012 Booming , Urban Renewal Begins > 2030 New Yorkers pack up and move to Philly , Philly reaches for the sky with huge skyscrapers

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by Darbarian

Acutally, the EL runs on the wider gauge tracks. Its currently gauged at 5 ft 2 1/2 in (1,588 mm), which is also known as Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge.

My bad. Point being that the trains are narrower. I guess it's the platform configuration that limits train width at this point.