Philadelphia 2035 (affordable apartments, reasons, collection)

[PhilliesPhan2013]

Originally Posted by rotodome

You do know that most of the land covered in the Big Dig actually can't have dense development on top of it, for structural reasons. So, even billions of dollars of state funds and decades of work might not make all dreams come true!

Not on top of it. I know the structures constructed during the Big Dig, or anything similar to it, would not be able to support such dense development. I'm talking about development on either side of Vine. I'm talking about those surface lots in Chinatown North/Callowhill. I would envision some type of median with green space in the middle. When it comes to I-95, I envision it tunneled from Arch to Oregon. Rowhouse development could occur in those areas. Columbus Boulevard, particularly on the Delaware River side, would have the dense development.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013

Not on top of it. I know the structures constructed during the Big Dig, or anything similar to it, would not be able to support such dense development. I'm talking about development on either side of Vine. I'm talking about those surface lots in Chinatown North/Callowhill. I would envision some type of median with green space in the middle. When it comes to I-95, I envision it tunneled from Arch to Oregon. Rowhouse development could occur in those areas. Columbus Boulevard, particularly on the Delaware River side, would have the dense development.

The Vine St. Expressway is not what was originally proposed for Vine St. It was originally supposed to be a surface road that would have cut Chinatown in two. The Chinese community protested. When they were still ignored a petition was circulated. I know this because I signed that petition when I was in college. That's why the Vine St Expressway was sunk. Don't look at surface lots in Chinatown with greedy eyes, dreaming of putting tall buildings there. If you think that there would not be a backlash you are mistaken.

I already told you what happened when they dug the Vine St Expressway. If they tunnel for 95 there is little chance that they wouldn't end up stopped with archeologists crawling all over the area multiple times. That's a real possibility east of City Hall.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Not the main takeaway, but I can't believe its going to take Penndot over 4 years to replace a few bridges, not even any capping work aside from a small sliver..Rome was built faster than that.

Maybe more important than what kyb01 said about the project, and what added time to both it and the Big Dig, is that the work has to be done while keeping the road beneath it open (just as the elevated freeway over the tunnel in Boston had to be kept open). You can always get the work done faster if you don't have to maintain service on an existing facility.

Originally Posted by shamcity

Does anybody see Frankford improving i've always thought that neighborhood has potential. Great transit and the homes especially towards Northwood are really nice. BTW what do people think of Northwood?

Northwood is the tony part of Frankford. It's still a pretty nice neighborhood, if frayed around the edges.

Frankford has strong bones and great transit service, but it's hollowed out far more than Germantown has, and despite the heroic efforts of the Frankford CDC to date to get people to view the place with fresh eyes, I don't see any major transformation taking place there soon.

Originally Posted by southbound_295

The Vine St. Expressway is not what was originally proposed for Vine St. It was originally supposed to be a surface road that would have cut Chinatown in two. The Chinese community protested. When they were still ignored a petition was circulated. I know this because I signed that petition when I was in college. That's why the Vine St Expressway was sunk. Don't look at surface lots in Chinatown with greedy eyes, dreaming of putting tall buildings there. If you think that there would not be a backlash you are mistaken.

Sure about that?

Vine Street was already a 10-lane-wide surface arterial when the Expressway extension was proposed; the street was widened from 16th Street east to Franklin Square in 1955. (I remember that on my first visit here in 1971, eastbound traffic headed for the bridge actually went from 9th and Vine down Ridge Avenue to 8th Street, then along Arch to the bridge.)

I'm pretty sure what the petitioners were objecting to was the sunken expressway itself. (Vine was still that 10-lane behemoth when I moved here in 1983. I think the expressway actually improved things by taking most of the through traffic into the trench and making Vine easier to cross.)

I already told you what happened when they dug the Vine St Expressway. If they tunnel for 95 there is little chance that they wouldn't end up stopped with archeologists crawling all over the area multiple times. That's a real possibility east of City Hall.

In the vicinity of Center City, 95 is already partially buried, so I don't think there'd be more major finds. Pennsport is probably a different story.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Maybe more important than what kyb01 said about the project, and what added time to both it and the Big Dig, is that the work has to be done while keeping the road beneath it open (just as the elevated freeway over the tunnel in Boston had to be kept open). You can always get the work done faster if you don't have to maintain service on an existing facility.



Northwood is the tony part of Frankford. It's still a pretty nice neighborhood, if frayed around the edges.

Frankford has strong bones and great transit service, but it's hollowed out far more than Germantown has, and despite the heroic efforts of the Frankford CDC to date to get people to view the place with fresh eyes, I don't see any major transformation taking place there soon.



Sure about that?

Vine Street was already a 10-lane-wide surface arterial when the Expressway extension was proposed; the street was widened from 16th Street east to Franklin Square in 1955. (I remember that on my first visit here in 1971, eastbound traffic headed for the bridge actually went from 9th and Vine down Ridge Avenue to 8th Street, then along Arch to the bridge.)

I'm pretty sure what the petitioners were objecting to was the sunken expressway itself. (Vine was still that 10-lane behemoth when I moved here in 1983. I think the expressway actually improved things by taking most of the through traffic into the trench and making Vine easier to cross.)



In the vicinity of Center City, 95 is already partially buried, so I don't think there'd be more major finds. Pennsport is probably a different story.

Yes, I'm pretty sure about it. I used to maneuver through the Vine St. mess, regularly. There were lights to allow cross traffic & some islands for pedestrians. You could see the little kids from Chinatown, in their uniforms, on the islands, going to & from school if you went at the right times. do you remember that? That was the cause of the uproar about an expressway on the surface. The petition took it back to the drawing board. Eventually, they decided to sink the road.

I graduated in 1973, so the petion was about 71 or 72. The Chinatown community sent copies of the petion to the local colleges with their college students to collect signatures.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013

Not on top of it. I know the structures constructed during the Big Dig, or anything similar to it, would not be able to support such dense development. I'm talking about development on either side of Vine. I'm talking about those surface lots in Chinatown North/Callowhill. I would envision some type of median with green space in the middle. When it comes to I-95, I envision it tunneled from Arch to Oregon. Rowhouse development could occur in those areas. Columbus Boulevard, particularly on the Delaware River side, would have the dense development.

Wasn't there some plan to actually "get rid" of I-95 in the CC portion, reclaim/infill the land and build on it to reconnect that portion of the city, more directly,to the riverfront?

I remember Inga S writing about it and it may have come out of some Penn Praxis idea.

If the Viaduct Park(high line)happens, those surface lots along Callowhill and Vine may be more primed for development. There's already some along 13th and 11th toward Spring Garden St.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Yes, I'm pretty sure about it. I used to maneuver through the Vine St. mess, regularly. There were lights to allow cross traffic & some islands for pedestrians. You could see the little kids from Chinatown, in their uniforms, on the islands, going to & from school if you went at the right times. do you remember that? That was the cause of the uproar about an expressway on the surface. The petition took it back to the drawing board. Eventually, they decided to sink the road.

I graduated in 1973, so the petion was about 71 or 72. The Chinatown community sent copies of the petion to the local colleges with their college students to collect signatures.

Well, that explains it - the fight had already ended, with the Chinatowners winning, by the time I arrived here in 1983.

An at-grade freeway would have been a disaster for Chinatown. Imagine how it would have looked with a standard-grade pedestrian bridge at 10th or 9th and Vine. It would have cut the neighborhood off from its Catholic church and school, and it would have prevented the development of what we now call "Chinatown North."

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Well, that explains it - the fight had already ended, with the Chinatowners winning, by the time I arrived here in 1983.

An at-grade freeway would have been a disaster for Chinatown. Imagine how it would have looked with a standard-grade pedestrian bridge at 10th or 9th and Vine. It would have cut the neighborhood off from its Catholic church and school, and it would have prevented the development of what we now call "Chinatown North."

That's it in a nutshell. I signed that petion. It would have been terrible for the people in Chinatown. That's why I made the comment that I made concerning Chinatown. The college students who got signatures may be there still or may have gone to the suburbs. If you know reasonably recent history, I wouldn't eyeball surface parking lots in Chinatown unless the community got behind the project.

[cpomp]

Changing Skyline: We can't treat our historic buildings as hardships

Possibly another historic loss for new development. I am excited for this project, but there is no reason why these buildings need to be demolished.

Still can't believe the PPA planned a parking garage for the site in the 90s. The city will never learn.

[Clark Park]

I walked past the Study Hotel construction site today (it's on the corner of 33rd and Chestnut.) It's already 10 stories high, only one more story to go and it's topped off. That thing is going up fast!

[Pine to Vine]

Southound, MarketSt & kyb - reps all around! Thanks for the history lesson on the Vine Expressway.