Philadelphia 2035 (Lancaster, Chester, West Chester: pros and cons, gardening, compare)

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I don't think the St. James has 58 floors. I also think it's closer to 200' than 400' in height, though it's clearly taller than 200'.



What's bugged me about the Aramark project is: Who got rid of its residential component?

The original plan was for offices in an expanded Marketplace building with a residential midrise above it. The design by Varenhorst and Gensler was very much boxy, but it did break the box up into some interesting irregular shapes.

But at the time, PMC hadn't found a tenant for the office space. Which leads me to guess that Aramark didn't want to share any building it would be lead tenant in with apartments.

St James is 45 stories at 500' tall, very tall for that area, so any complaints about Tolls building being too tall are silly.


And for once I am glad the new Aramark Building is short, because that structure is a block long and creates a very unfortunate wall right on the river. Again tall and sleek instead of short and fat, but Philadelphia prefers short and fat.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Not hundreds re NY. Probably closer to, oh, the Gilded age...1890s. Look up the Five Points sometime to see how awful that was.


But tbh I wish Toll was doing another development somewhere else, along the waterfront maybe, and I wish we could see some renderings of this project. Still nothing about it.

I just did, funny I was just down in that area a few days ago... amazing to think that now trendy area was once a notorious crime den.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I just did, funny I was just down in that area a few days ago... amazing to think that now trendy area was once a notorious crime den.

We're getting OT now..... But everytime I go to the Bowery now I smh and laugh. How different it is! When I was a kid it was skid row. Bums everywhere!

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

One, "yet another"? Toll Brothers City Living's projects in Philadelphia to date have been strictly residential, with a token retail space on the 24th Street side of 2400 South being the sole nod to mixed-use. This project would be the company's first of its kind in Philadelphia. As I said, this marks Toll doing what urbanist advocates have asked it to do for years.

But yes, let's see renderings. It's hard to make a final judgement without them..

I was referring to "yet another" mixed use project by any developer; not "yet another" Tolll Bros. project. And I am able to make a judgement. I know what Jewelers' Row looks like now. It doesn't take a lot of imaginaion to realize how its character will change with a 20+ story building sitting in the middle of it.

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Two, "lots of nearby spots"? Yes, there's a parking lot in the 800 block of Walnut, just east of the Walnut Street Theatre, that could support a project of this size. And there's the old Gimbels site in the block bounded by 8th, 9th, Market and Chestnut that could support all kinds of stuff. And a third surface lot in the 700 block of Chestnut. But there must be some reason no one's proposing anything for the Gimbels site since the attempt to make it a casino got blocked. As for the others, it's probably a matter of where Toll could get land for a price it wanted to pay.

I specifically referred to "spots," not lots. In addition to the lots you mentioned, there other structures in need of rehab or razing in that part of town that can be developed rather than irreparably tearing the heart out of Jewelers' Row.

I hope that helps clarify my post.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I did just that this evening. The city looks fantastic at night.

I actually understand your POV here about City Hall. But, truthfully, City Hall is not being neglected in spite of newer buildings towering over it or blocking it. DIlworth Park has made it a "go to" destination all year round. The fountains that kids play in in summer. The ice skating rink now and all the Christmas booths surrounding City Hall and the court yard. There's a carousel in the court yard too.

Remember the old Dilworth Plaza and what an eyesore that turned into? All gone and replaced by the above with City Hall as a gorgeous backdrop.

Here's my problem. You don't have to agree, but I now think that you understand where I'm coming from.

People on here talk about the skyline. The skyline is a view. It's visual. I'm sure you remember when skyline shots were taken from all angles. The center focal point was City Hall, a uniquely Philadelphia landmark.

Now the shots are from the river or the angled shot from the Art Museum steps. The Art Museum shot smacks of Rocky, but it's identifiable. The money shot is from the Delaware. It builds to City Hall. You see the smaller, older buildings in the foreground. Many people who have never been to Philadelphia can identify it on sight. Coming into the city on the Ben Franklin, by car or PATCO, there is an impressive view with a good field of depth. Then you go into it.

When I see the skyline of Manhattan, I see a mass of tall buildings. It's a jumble. There is no field of depth. To me, Philadelphia shows itself as a city on a human scale. That impresses me more.

Now as far as the Jewelers Row building. It will, in a short period of time, break up a wonderful asset of Philadelphia to plop a residential tower into it. It's a wonderful part of the city which I first discovered in 1970, when l was sent to the refinery to buy tools & silver for my first semester of jewelry class.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Here's my problem. You don't have to agree, but I now think that you understand where I'm coming from.

People on here talk about the skyline. The skyline is a view. It's visual. I'm sure you remember when skyline shots were taken from all angles. The center focal point was City Hall, a uniquely Philadelphia landmark.

Now the shots are from the river or the angled shot from the Art Museum steps. The Art Museum shot smacks of Rocky, but it's identifiable. The money shot is from the Delaware. It builds to City Hall. You see the smaller, older buildings in the foreground. Many people who have never been to Philadelphia can identify it on sight. Coming into the city on the Ben Franklin, by car or PATCO, there is an impressive view with a good field of depth. Then you go into it.

When I see the skyline of Manhattan, I see a mass of tall buildings. It's a jumble. There is no field of depth. To me, Philadelphia shows itself as a city on a human scale. That impresses me more.

Now as far as the Jewelers Row building. It will, in a short period of time, break up a wonderful asset of Philadelphia to plop a residential tower into it. It's a wonderful part of the city which I first discovered in 1970, when l was sent to the refinery to buy tools & silver for my first semester of jewelry class.

I do understand your POV. Educationally I'm a historian so your perspective is one I can identify with.

But the city should not be frozen in amber or we should not stifle growth or change either, imo.

[MarketStEl]

As long as I've lived here, the "money shots" of the skyline have been:

--from Belmont Plateau in Fairmount Park
--from the general vicinity of the South Street Bridge
--from the Art Museum steps, looking down the Parkway (the "Rocky" view)
--from approximately Spring Garden Street and the Schuylkill Expressway (this one's the most popular night shot)

There's also a good view as you round the curve that takes I-95 to its along-the-Delaware alignment southbound and take the ramp from 95 south to 676 west.

What I also remember about the city's skyline prior to Liberty Place was: It was boring from most angles save the Parkway one.

The unwritten rule may have preserved City Hall's pride of place as the city's tallest building, but it also produced a buzz cut of a skyline, as all the office buildings came right up to the brim of Billy Penn's hat.

Breaking that rule gave the city the far more photogenic skyline it now has. And the zoning along the Parkway, along with the street's orientation, means we will always have a view where City Hall is dominant. I'd say that's a win-win situation.

[AJNEOA]

My favorite is from Bok HS in South Philly. But that's not a "public" view.

[Pine to Vine]

I'd throw in the view across the Delaware.



When you see Billy Penn nestled in there, you can see how much the skyline has changed since the "gentlemens' agreement" has lifted.

[kyb01]

Very cool vid about the work being done on the Comcast Tech Center on phillycurbed.