Philadelphia 2035 (Washington, Darby, Penn: lofts, Amtrak, company)

[UDResident]

KOP should not be the third largest business center in the metro. Also, the city has 135 square miles of land. There's more than enough room to fit everything between the city and other older urban places like Upper Darby and that part of Delco, Camden, Chester, Norristown, etc etc.

KOP has been sucking the life out of the actual urban parts of the metro for decades now. Virtually everything it has was poached from another part of the metro. That's the only reason why 75% of the jobs are outside of the city. Encouraging that hurts the city, as it has done for decades now.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by Toure

I do t think there's a need for public transportation from Philly to KOP. Kop is a place where family's go there in a car. And who wavta to go back with all them hollister bags?

Like many of the other posters have said, Septa should be focusing on other projects like returning rail service to towns like Newtown and West Chester than wasting money trying to provide rail service to KOP.

[MarketStEl]

UDResident and everyone else: As long as two of the three busiest highways in the region - the third is Interstate 95 - meet at King of Prussia, there will be business done at the crossroads. Unless and until we eliminate cars entirely, that is, and that ain't likely to happen anytime soon.

As for retrofitting urbanity onto autocentric urbanism, I guess none of you have been paying attention to what's been going on in Washington lately. Tysons Corner, Va., is the only Edge City on the East Coast that is larger than KofP. It also grew because it sits near an important highway junction (Capital Beltway, I-66, Dulles Toll/Access Road). A full-blown Metro line, ultimate destination Dulles Airport, terminus for now the "new town" of Reston, is nearing completion as we speak, and everyone understands that its main reason for being is to serve Tysons, which many fervently hope will be retrofitted for urbanity thereby.

This former reverse rail commuter (R3 West Trenton line from Market East to Yardley, 2007-2009) understands well the interconnected nature of the regional economy. I've bemoaned the trend that has seen Center City's residential population soar while its employment base remains flat - in the Inky, all the way back in 2005, and it's only gotten worse since then; were it not for the universities on the opposite bank of the Schuylkill, Central Philadelphia might now be a commuter suburb in fact. We need to shore up the employment base of the center. But KofP ain't goin' nowhere, either, and there are benefits to retrofitting it for pedestrian friendliness that would accrue to all who head there, from suburb and city.

BTW, KofP is there because the money went out there first. It didn't suck the money out of the city, it followed it. And here lies the ray of hope: Just as companies moved their headquarters out of the central city because their CEOs moved out of it first, then brought their companies closer to them, it may happen that the residential population boom in Center City will result in firms following their workers back to where they would rather live. It's already happening in the high-tech hubs.

[UDResident]

I don't ever want anything like the abominations in the Virginia/DC area in this metro. That should not be anything we should ever try to emulate.

I don't have any problem with KOP as what it is. I have a problem with changing it in a way that will hurt the places that are naturally more urban and walkable than it. That will only help it continue to kill these places and the city as well.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

UDResident and everyone else: As long as two of the three busiest highways in the region - the third is Interstate 95 - meet at King of Prussia, there will be business done at the crossroads. Unless and until we eliminate cars entirely, that is, and that ain't likely to happen anytime soon.

As for retrofitting urbanity onto autocentric urbanism, I guess none of you have been paying attention to what's been going on in Washington lately. Tysons Corner, Va., is the only Edge City on the East Coast that is larger than KofP. It also grew because it sits near an important highway junction (Capital Beltway, I-66, Dulles Toll/Access Road). A full-blown Metro line, ultimate destination Dulles Airport, terminus for now the "new town" of Reston, is nearing completion as we speak, and everyone understands that its main reason for being is to serve Tysons, which many fervently hope will be retrofitted for urbanity thereby.

This former reverse rail commuter (R3 West Trenton line from Market East to Yardley, 2007-2009) understands well the interconnected nature of the regional economy. I've bemoaned the trend that has seen Center City's residential population soar while its employment base remains flat - in the Inky, all the way back in 2005, and it's only gotten worse since then; were it not for the universities on the opposite bank of the Schuylkill, Central Philadelphia might now be a commuter suburb in fact. We need to shore up the employment base of the center. But KofP ain't goin' nowhere, either, and there are benefits to retrofitting it for pedestrian friendliness that would accrue to all who head there, from suburb and city.

BTW, KofP is there because the money went out there first. It didn't suck the money out of the city, it followed it. And here lies the ray of hope: Just as companies moved their headquarters out of the central city because their CEOs moved out of it first, then brought their companies closer to them, it may happen that the residential population boom in Center City will result in firms following their workers back to where they would rather live. It's already happening in the high-tech hubs.

Agree 100%, the DC/NOVA/MD example shows that both a core and burbs can prosper with smart growth. Also better resources and transit from the burbs can help both it doesnt have to be an either/or.

Though to me that is why a one seat rapid transit option would be even better to this area.

Tysons is a perfect example as it was basically similar to KOP (mall and all) 25 years ago and today is inflilling into an semi urban commercial and residential center with the extension of the silver line.

I disagree with UD in that only the core can be helped. More and better opportunities and planning on the whole is a good thing for all places (including CC)

BTW - that article is as (if not more) relavant today as it was when you wrote it. Any other predictions? Lottery numbers etc.

The Broader Philadelphia area of 6 million is not all city and not all burbs nor will will it ever be.

[RightonWalnut]

UPenn's "South Bank" plan across the Schuylkill around 34th and Grays Ferry.



PennConnects : *—*South Bank Overview

[DarkWolf]

Looks too suburban...

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Looks too suburban...

Remember...

A- This is a university/ research campus
B- There is poor public transit to this area
C- This is the redevelopment of an industrial park

They key is to keep density low to spread it out over a larger area. This will likely have a similar design and plan to the Navy Yard.

[RightonWalnut]

New Spruce Street Plaza Park



Spruce Street Plaza Will Make HUP A Nicer Place to Work and Visit | NakedPhilly

[UDResident]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Agree 100%, the DC/NOVA/MD example shows that both a core and burbs can prosper with smart growth. Also better resources and transit from the burbs can help both it doesnt have to be an either/or.

Though to me that is why a one seat rapid transit option would be even better to this area.

Tysons is a perfect example as it was basically similar to KOP (mall and all) 25 years ago and today is inflilling into an semi urban commercial and residential center with the extension of the silver line.

I disagree with UD in that only the core can be helped. More and better opportunities and planning on the whole is a good thing for all places (including CC)

BTW - that article is as (if not more) relavant today as it was when you wrote it. Any other predictions? Lottery numbers etc.

The Broader Philadelphia area of 6 million is not all city and not all burbs nor will will it ever be.

Nobody should ever try to emulate DC/NoVa/MD. It's the most suburban, sterile part of the entire East Coast. DC doesn't have multiple older, troubled urban areas on all sides of it the way Philadelphia does. DC has never not been a "big city" the way Philadelphia was relegated to small town status according to the rest of the country and even the world until very recently.

Tyson's Corner is an abomination. Semi-urban is never anything anybody should strive for.


"I disagree with UD in that only the core can be helped." People seem to keep disagreeing with things I never actually said. Odd.


I never said it was all city or all burbs. It is however full of smaller cities and many smaller urban places that have been killed by suburbanization or loss of industry. Instead of using the advantages these places have over the sprawled out suburban places that killed them in the first place, you want to completely get rid of those few advantages and further cement the stranglehold those suburban places have on them.


Maybe in 20 or 30 years, strengthening KOP to be more "urban" and "dense" and "walkable" won't kill all of the struggling parts of the metro that actually naturally are those things but right now I guarantee you it would. How is that something that should be encouraged? We're not DC, not LA, not any of those places nor should we ever be.