Moving, near Philly, but where?? Safety, culture and low to no noise. (Philadelphia: condo, crime rates)

[CourageMom]

My husband and I (50+ years old) are thinking seriously of moving away from idyllic quiet, friendliness, and respectful people of the countryside because we miss getting on a train to go into the city and getting REALLY GOOD FOOD, AND we miss museums, concerts, opera (<--maybe once a year) and unique shopping (not the same 'ol-same 'ol mall shopping). Cities are so savvy, upbeat and exciting when you can get in at least once a month. We have absolutely no clue where to move to outside of Center city..we've only been to Philly once for a few days, stayed in the Center just before the Holidays and enjoyed the Christmas Market, and the Macy's light show. ..also .. I heard there is an Italian section..true? Is this a lovely old world portion of the city, or just a few Italian stores near each other? Is this a charming section to live in?..safe..the kind of place I can wheel my grandchildren in a stroller? I'm hoping for awesome pastry...and crusty Italian breads and REAL PIZZA. It's not necessary to live in a section like this (educate me), just wondering about ANY area that has a village feel with movie theater, deli, lovely window shopping..coffee houses, art, safe walking, a nice people etc..
We sure do miss real food with flavor which you cannot get in the pastoral areas of Virginia. Ideas anyone? Thanks!!

[Pine to Vine]

Are you looking for the suburbs or the city? If the city, you say you have no clue where to move to outside of Center City. Why not CC? Lots of empty nesters live here, and what you want is within walking distance - theaters, concerts, opera, museums, restaurants, deli's, coffee houses, shopping, etc. It is also one of the safest parts of the city.

South Philly is generally considered the Italian section. It is much more than a few shops along side another, but I would not say it has old world charm. It is pretty dense with row houses and I'm thinking the older housing stock might not be to your liking. In between South Philly and Center City is Bella Vista, where the Italian Market is located.

If you are looking for something slightly less dense, you might consider Chestnut Hill. It definitely has the village feel you referenced. While it is within the city limits, it feels separate, yet has easy rail access to Center City.

Philly also has some of the nicest suburbs in the country. If you are looking for advice on those, another poster should be able to help you.

[frankgn87]

little to no noise? Don't look in the city.. Look in the burbs and drive the short drive to the city to see the cultural events you want. South Philly used to be Italian(family was from there) but that sadly is almost gone.. Asians moved in to take over most of the businesses. And is the op wants safe.. Please don't look in the city. NO cities are the safest parts of a landscape.. Ya want a safe, clean, town like area? Look at Newtown, Doylestown, Jenkentown on th epa sade and Haddonfield, Moorestown and Collingswood on the NJ side.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

little to no noise? Don't look in the city.. Look in the burbs and drive the short drive to the city to see the cultural events you want. South Philly used to be Italian(family was from there) but that sadly is almost gone.. Asians moved in to take over most of the businesses. And is the op wants safe.. Please don't look in the city. NO cities are the safest parts of a landscape.. Ya want a safe, clean, town like area? Look at Newtown, Doylestown, Jenkentown on th epa sade and Haddonfield, Moorestown and Collingswood on the NJ side.

Is Philadelphia a crime-free, litter-free utopia? Absolutely not. Are the suburbs? Nope, sorry. I can name several suburban towns that could give the dogdgy parts of a Philadelphia a run for their money in terms of crime, filth, etc. On that same token, some neighborhoods in Philadelphia can absolutely compare to the area's top suburbs. No, city living is not going to be for everyone, but many people still opt for it over suburban living for several reasons, the OP's reasons being one of the most common among those.

As to the OP, coming from suburban VA, you'd definitely be in for a change of pace and living environment. The area around the Italian Market has changed over the years (poster child for gentrification) -- becoming a magnet for young professionals, young families and Asian/Hispanic immigrant communities. While the character of the neighborhood has changed, there is still strong Italian heritage and stalwart institutions in the area (i.e., DiBruno Bros., Ralph's, D'Angelo Bros., etc.). That "old world" charm particularly comes out during the outdoor markets:

http://www.phillyitalianmarket.com/index.html

If really feel like you can adjust to a more urban lifestyle, then Bella Vista is a very desirable neighborhood, particularly north of Washington Avenue. jm02 also has some great points about some outer neighborhoods in Philadelphia (namely Chestnut Hill, West Mt. Airy, East Falls, etc.) that offer a more suburban/village feel and likely better with the noise factor while still being very close to the amenities of Center City.

Good luck!

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

little to no noise? Don't look in the city.. Look in the burbs and drive the short drive to the city to see the cultural events you want. South Philly used to be Italian(family was from there) but that sadly is almost gone.. Asians moved in to take over most of the businesses. And is the op wants safe.. Please don't look in the city. NO cities are the safest parts of a landscape.. Ya want a safe, clean, town like area? Look at Newtown, Doylestown, Jenkentown on th epa sade and Haddonfield, Moorestown and Collingswood on the NJ side.

We are 50+ and intentionally moved to the city. We were not interested in NJ. The other residents of our condo are mostly people just like us, and it is very insulated from noise. We were interested in driving as little as possible and in fact, went down to one car, which we sometimes go a few weeks without even starting. There is no generalization that can be made that the city is dangerous and the suburbs are safe. The general rule, as I'm sure you can imagine, is that higher income areas experience less crime than lower income areas, regardless of whether they are urban or suburban. Center City is typically populated with lots of folks like us walking the streets throughout the day and evening, and is one of the safer parts of the metro area. Since you've been here, you can judge for yourself whether you felt the neighborhood felt safe enough for your standards. As for South Philly being "taken over" by Asians, I suppose that's a perspective. We certainly see our share of Italian deli's, bakeries, restaurants and businesses there. Perhaps it was moreso years ago.

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by Duderino

On that same token, some neighborhoods in Philadelphia can absolutely compare to the area's top suburbs.

not even close. There is is NO neighborhood(zip code) in the city that compare to the best of the burbs in safety.. If you think you can find a zip code that is as safe as where we are in Jersey, show me. You will not find one. When people come here asking the truth I really believe we should not be sugarcoating it because families will spend a lot of time and $$ moving to an area that they are told is safe when in reality it is not.. Look it up in city data of you don't believe me.. The city is many times more dangerous then most every burb. Its a fact, plain and simple.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

not even close. There is is NO neighborhood(zip code) in the city that compare to the best of the burbs in safety.. If you think you can find a zip code that is as safe as where we are in Jersey, show me. You will not find one. When people come here asking the truth I really believe we should not be sugarcoating it because families will spend a lot of time and $$ moving to an area that they are told is safe when in reality it is not.. Look it up in city data of you don't believe me.. The city is many times more dangerous then most every burb. Its a fact, plain and simple.

That's not exactly what I said -- I'm mostly referring to amenities; the nicest neighborhoods in the city clearly surpass the nicest suburbs in terms of amenities. Even in terms of safety -- although I'm not able to find a source that calculates crime rates by zip code (which would be the most valid measure) -- there are tons of neighborhoods where violent crime is very rare, and property crimes constitute the vast majority of all crime in such neighborhoods. Some may see that as a threat to personal safety, but at the root it's really a threat to property. You can find that in plenty of suburbs.

Life is all about trade-offs, unfortunately. Clearly many people are willing to live in the city over the suburbs to gain much more closeness to cultural amenities, walkability, community-feel, etc. even though they're likely going to increase their risk for things like theft. I'm sure the OP is completely aware of such trade-offs, as higher crime rates in the city is not really a secret.

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Life is all about trade-offs, unfortunately. Clearly many people are willing to live in the city over the suburbs to gain much more closeness to cultural amenities, walkability, community-feel, etc. even though they're likely going to increase their risk for things like theft.

Couldn't agree more. Finding a place to live is always a series of trade-offs. Some people want a balcony with a view of the city while others want a lawn they can sprinkle. This particular OP seems to want the vibrancy of city life. Nothing I've read from them so far indicates they want to pay expensive parking plus a $5 toll each time they want to access it.

As for the myth that suburbs are safer than cities, I am far safer in Center City than I am in the little town of 10,000 I grew up in, which has a higher statistical crime rate. If the OP is looking for a map of crime rates by zip code, this confirms my assertion that crime levels are analogous to income level: Philadelphia County Safety Map - Google Maps

If anyone want to continue to debate crime v helping the OP, feel free. As I read it, however, there are quite a lot of amenities they are seeking information about.

[Angus215]

It doesn't sound like the OP is looking for a "suburbian utopia".

I would look at Chestnut Hill. It has a lot of the benefits of both the city (proximity to culture, shopping, restaurants) and the suburbs (quiet, space). The only downside to chestnut hill is the phila public school system, which is not an issue for you. Lots of character, a real downtown, plus a short train ride to center city.

Also, you would be surprised at how quiet some of the center city neighborhoods can be, particularly if you're not on one of the major streets. Not sure what your budget is, but you could look around society hill, washington square, queen village, and rittenhouse.

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by jm02

Couldn't agree more. Finding a place to live is always a series of trade-offs. Some people want a balcony with a view of the city while others want a lawn they can sprinkle. This particular OP seems to want the vibrancy of city life. Nothing I've read from them so far indicates they want to pay expensive parking plus a $5 toll each time they want to access it.

As for the myth that suburbs are safer than cities, I am far safer in Center City than I am in the little town of 10,000 I grew up in, which has a higher statistical crime rate. If the OP is looking for a map of crime rates by zip code, this confirms my assertion that crime levels are analogous to income level: Philadelphia County Safety Map - Google Maps

If anyone want to continue to debate crime v helping the OP, feel free. As I read it, however, there are quite a lot of amenities they are seeking information about.

here. Compares cc to where I am.. You tell me if its anywhere as safe in Center city as the burbs.. Not even close.. I defy you to even find ONE zip code in the entire city that compares. You won't.. I tried


Philadelphia Old City Demographics - Neighborhood Demographics

and..

Cinnaminson Pheasant Run Demographics - Neighborhood Demographics